Welcome to the employer content show, part of the talent insights series brought to you by Hirewell and Before You Apply. I’m James Hornick, joining me is my co-host from Before You Apply, I did not come up with a snappy nickname this week because we have enough going on,
Nate Guggia. Hey bud. Good to see you. So this is- people don’t even realize how special the show is. This is a show where we decided we’re just not going live anymore because we just don’t care. Yeah. So for the entire inception of the show, we were doing a live show via LinkedIn and a bunch of other platforms we were hooked up to, and then we would take that show and put it on YouTube and everywhere else.
We’re just going to do it on zoom and if we make mistakes, you’re never going to know because Nia is going to cut them all up for us. It’ll be perfect. It’s wonderful.
Well, it’s freer. Yeah. Well they also- the thing was, that for the longest time it was the only way to really reach a hundred percent of your network. It would pop up on everyone’s notifications
if you went live on something, you know. You couldn’t do like a full length video on LinkedIn otherwise. You can only do a 10 minute video. So like, I like having stuff that was native to LinkedIn, then we could post other places. But as we found out, Streamyard, the platform we use they launched a feature where you can just, you can go live with a prerecorded video.
So I’m like sure. I actually think it’d be better just because I think you can improve on the small mistakes and stuff you make, but more importantly, I think I’ll send it live or recorded version. So if you’re watching this now, we’re not actually live. But I think I could actually be in the comments, actually interacting with people
because that’s impossible to do that while you and I are having a conversation. Now I’ll be able to actually like park in the comments, talk with people, reply to them as if we’re live. So if you have questions out there, please reply because Nate and I are listening right now.
I said that a week ago or whatever. So anyways. And the other thing is we don’t even have really have a title for today’s show. So it was something along the lines of like “Why small companies kick ass and big companies are awful when it comes to content” or something like that. I don’t know. It’s how they can-
I think, you know, in our conversation with Mitch Sullivan we realized, or we started talking about an advantage that smaller companies can have over larger, more like legacy brands, I guess. Because they can can do things faster and scrappier and like more in line with some stuff that we all, we do.
Yeah. So we were like, yeah, we should just do a full show on that. So basically we’ll come up with the final title when we post it, but you’re listening to a show that’s vaguely about the difference between large and small companies when it comes to the content and actually have a good personal example about user generated content and why small companies definitely have the advantage when it comes to hiring because large companies are bloated and do stupid things that large companies do, but anyway.
Yep. I got a bunch of places I could start a guess. I have some notes here. Is there anything that you wanted to kick it off with though, or anything you wanted to mention to lead the convo? Yeah. Yes. Okay. I’ll start with this. I had a call this morning actually with someone who runs TA at like a 50 person startup right now.
They’re growing. They’re growing really fast. They’re going to double to a hundred in a couple months, but she had previously come from LinkedIn. She worked at LinkedIn for like seven years prior. So completely different environment. And what she was telling me was they would create content there.
It would take so long to get published that by the time that it was actually published, it was already out of date. Totally. I mean, I think there’s a couple of things there, because look at it this way. How many times have you- we’ve only been doing the show a little over a year, year and a couple of months. All the stuff we did in the first six months of the show is like completely irrelevant now.
Oh my God. Okay. It’s funny. I’ve been looking through our library, because we both have like tons of clips that are just backlogged. I was looking through some of the old ones cause I wanted to post one and I was like, whoa, Yeah. It’s all completely- I think there’s a relevancy factor of stuff that’s happening.
I don’t mean just like social commentary, but things that are more top of mind. Like people, I don’t think they have a perspective of how quickly, whether it’s what’s exciting or compelling- putting it into a company’s perspective of hiring, like what’s compelling in their group or team you’re working on or what cool initiatives you have going on right now in the organization that are worth talking about, but like the things, the selling points that makes a candidate get excited to come join your company,
those change fairly quickly as like new priorities are happening in the organization. So I don’t know. Yeah, I know. I was going to say like, I mean high level, I think the point from when we were having that conversation with Mitch is that small companies have maybe the biggest need for, like they have to get their name out for the first time
a lot of the time, right? But they don’t have the budget and larger companies have potentially all the budget in the world, but they have all these layers of disconnection between just, they have all this process. They have all these guardrails, which I’d love to talk about guardrails for a minute,
that make it just impossible for good, relevant, recent branding or recruitment marketing things to happen. And it makes employee generated content probably completely impossible in larger orgs. And it’s just kinda funny that, I know Mitch’s perspective was like they should be able to hire advertising firms, which I’d agree with.
I like to see it though. You know what I mean? I don’t have any good examples of knowing if it would work for sure just because I don’t think anything works until I’ve actually seen a use case for it. I think larger companies that have a brand advantage it’s because it integrates well with their actual corporate brand to begin with. Like you mentioned, Patagonia as an example, you know what I mean? That they have a good employer brand because they have a good brand brand, you know what I mean? Right. I’ve never seen anything specific to it that’s about like what they’re hiring for or anything like that.
So anyways, Why don’t I talk about, and you can jump in here anytime- I posted this on LinkedIn side note, content hack: if you ever like prepping for a live show, if you’re out there listening and you’re like, how do I actually prep for some sort of podcast or something else like that? Just use the entire- write a post or blog post for something on LinkedIn or your blog.
And just put your entire show notes in a post and it’ll help you collect your thoughts and get something else to talk about. And a lot of times you’ll get opposing views and opposing feedback or things you missed, and then you’re crowdsourced. The comments are basically crowdsourcing and make your show more complete, which is basically what I did today
because I had a thought- so let’s also kind of recap briefly to our backgrounds as it relates to this. I’m not in employer brand. You are. But for Hirewell, because I I have an interest in this stuff because we’re kind of in the hiring industry. So I’d like to provide value to my clients, but we have internally have an employer-
like what we do also doubles as that. So it’s something that we’ve had a lot of success hiring this year because of our content initiatives, which clearly kind of falls under this. So to give some context, at the beginning of the year we were roughly 50 recruiters. We’ve made 26 hires as of today.
So we’re 76, 75 people. So 50% increase in our head count and it’s extremely, extremely, extremely hard to hire recruiters right now for anybody. And ask anybody you know in recruiting, it’s a pain in the ass to try to hire recruiters internally or- I mean, I know recruiting firms and we’re one of them, they’re turning down business, which is like baffling to me,
right. So I put that in fact because us hiring that many people as the size of our firm is a pretty big achievement, which we’re very proud of. And there’s a lot of things that go into it. We had to get a lot of people kind of on board. We have a lot of different service lines, so recruiters have backgrounds in sales or marketing or tech, like we have all those areas
so it makes it easier. We have things we do differently in our business model. You get to work with me- I’m cool as shit. So a lot of good things working for us here. But it’s easier because people know who the hell we are like full stop. We didn’t have this, you know, we didn’t have any kind of brand probably four years ago. But we had word of mouth, but beyond that, no one knew us.
And almost every interview, not everyone but majority of people who started either heard about us because of the content we do, or they interview with us, they looked into us more and they really liked kind of the stuff that we did because it was very different than what everyone else does. So I wanted to give that just like my background example of why, and I’ll give out kind of all of our tips here. But like the first thing, let’s relate it back to the higher topic, like large companies- because this is something I hear a lot in networking conversations with different people
when they say the reason why we can’t do what you guys do is because we have guardrails. We have things in place. Everyone is so freaking worried about the “rogue employee.” Yeah. The rogue employee who posts some shit on social that wrecks your brand. You know what I mean? How do we prevent that?
How we make sure that never happens? We can’t let employees just post wherever they want to. And the larger the company is, the more they worry about this shit. Like this is why large companies have very stringent policies and small companies don’t because they haven’t even thought of this yet. But I think the whole idea is just absurd.
Any case of employee that went really rogue, you know what I mean? It really blew things up that, like a whistleblower. You know what I mean? It was organizations that leak stuff. Like they’re going to violate whatever frigging policy you have. It’s not like- any worst case scenario of someone going off the rails and damaging your brand is violating that policy anyway.
You know what I mean? It’s not like as soon as you create a policy that’s stringent and you need to get marketing to approve the message or someone else. You’re just de-motivating anyone to do any of this shit if you’re trying to get your employees involved. If you look at PR nightmares or anything that’s been controversial, it’s always come from a CEO or a founder.
It really hasn’t come from like an employee, going off the rails. And the other thing is employees have complete freedom to post whatever they want on their personal profiles, on social platforms. Yeah. So we’re talking about somebody who already has the freedom to do that, actually doing that and having it come back
onto the company. Yeah. The whole thing doesn’t make any sense. Well in trading terms, because as you know, I’m a derivatives trader as well in my other life. It’s tail risk. Everyone’s worried about the worst case scenario but the worst case scenario one, is extremely unlikely. But two,
wouldn’t matter what guardrails you put in place anyway because it’s not going to prevent that. Someone spouts off some racist shit or whatever or they give away trade secrets or they spill insider secrets, like they have an agenda against you and whatever stupid rules you put in place is not going to stop that.
So really you’re talking about minor stuff. You’re talking about someone who phrased something the wrong way or post something- like you’re talking a minor shit and that’s stuff that you can just correct after the fact because one’s going to care. If you lose a client over some minor shit, chances are they were jackass anyway.
You know what I mean? I just think there’s- versus the amount you have to gain by just letting people kind of leeway to do whatever they, you know, to be more kind of open with it, be more creative and have a voice. You know what I mean? It provides a lot.
So the thing I proposed, I’ll give them a shout out. So a great organization here in Chicago that we got involved in recently, Sales Assembly, which they’re expanding kind of around the country. So it’s wonderful organization. If you were involved in kind of the sales competency, I highly recommend you checking them out.
But there is a leadership call every Thursday and we talk about how hard hiring is, we talk about COVID, like everything, all the topics everyone else talks about. These are things that come up, but there’s a lot of more kind of sales specific things and things leadership.
One of the things that came up in one of our recent calls was how everyone wants to do more of this, but they might be at companies where people are worried about the guard rail thing. How do you make sure you don’t have the rogue employee?
And one of the things I mentioned in one of those calls is, besides what I said is overstated. Having regular, like instead of- Make it a conversation, make it a regular thing that you do at this organization to have brainstorming sessions, right? So anyone at Hirewell that wants to get involved in content,
like we just ask, “Hey, just join our brainstorming session every other week.” Right. All we do is we talk about the different initiatives and stuff we have. We talk about what ideas everyone- like what are your clients seeing, what’s happening out in the market? What are candidates and job seekers are talking about?
So you start generating ideas, but on the other hand, you start also making impact on people and getting them to kind of think, okay, these are the topics that are relevant. These are the takes that are correct. You know what I mean? We’re not telling people how to think, but once everyone else kind of sees the direction that you’re setting in terms of like what adds value to our message and what’s going to help us kind of achieve either our business for hiring objectives, people start thinking kind of along those lines. And then you start brainstorming further,
okay what platforms should we put this on? How could we format it? It’s more of a proactive conversational way of adding value around, like not guardrails, but more just kind of getting everyone to kind of view what your vision is of what content should look like without making things-
it makes things more empowering versus making things demoralizing. And I think if you do that, you’re a lot of the way there. So that basically takes most of the concerns you should have off the table once you actually see how it works in practice, but I don’t know. I digress.
Okay. I’m going to take a step back. I’m going to be an observer here, act as the observer. One of the reasons I would say actually, well there’s two reasons I think Hirewell stuff works so well. One is the level of activity that you now have. First it was you. Yeah. Someone has to lead the way, I guess. You do need someone to do it, but then you want to get as many other people involved as you can. Right.
Yeah. And then slowly you would see some other team members like starting to pop up. And now at this point, there’s so much activity coming from one company that you just see the name of Hirewell in your feed every single day. Like it just happens, right. So there’s that. So there’s just like, oh, the brand recognition, but couple that with the fact that you all have actual opinions about the work that you’re doing. Which is a completely different thing and something that few companies actually have.
And if they do have them, they’re too afraid to put them out there publicly. And so you guys have this combination of activity, of volume, combined with a clear take on your industry that elevate you as true subject matter experts. So when somebody, I would imagine when somebody does need the services that you provide, they already know over days or weeks or months of seeing your stuff pop up and reading your stuff, going “Okay, they know what the hell they’re doing.”
Yeah. It’s rare. I wish it wasn’t so rare. I mean, it was a largely by- when we started this stuff my stated goal was I wanted Hirewell to be the- like when someone thinks recruiting, I wanted to be the first thing that pops into people’s minds, you know? And so it takes a level of-
and I guess, taking this back to large versus small, that’s another challenge larger organizations have is they don’t feel comfortable having an opinion. Right. The larger the organization is the more they feel like they have to not upset anybody, not offend everyone,
they can’t go against the grain ever, they can’t go outside the lines, they have to be easily agreeable. You know what I mean? And I think I said this to you not too long ago. I don’t think anything we do is controversial edgy. We just, this is just how I talk in real life. And I think that, I think that everyone else at these brands that have everything sanitized, like they don’t sound like that.
No one at their firm sounds like that, but they somehow agreed that you know what let’s just tone everything down to a point where no one even notices, is what ends up happening, you know? But every conversation that you have with other people in your life, that’s how you should sound when you’re presenting, talking about what it’s like to work with you, because that’s really what it’s like to work with you, you know?
Yeah. There’s like this other thing too, is if we focus, you know, if we’re focusing on content as it applies to hiring, to recruiting, companies really struggle with what to say, how to actually do it, how to put it out there and then how to do it at scale. Yeah. So going back to that example I gave at the beginning, what happens in our space is so much overthinking will be applied
to what needs to go out into the world. And so a lot of time and energy and resources will be invested in this to get it polished so it, fits into this neat, nice little safe box. And then something will go out into the world and it’s so uneventful that nobody cares. Nobody cares, but the realities of hiring, especially I think much more than sales, which like you talked about at the beginning is that things are changing so fast.
That it’s really like this dynamic content that keeps that that maintains the relevancy. We need these positions filled in 30 to 60 days. And guess what? 30, 60 days, we’re going to have a completely different shit to talk about. Whereas sales teams can sell them the same shit all year. So if this marketing program doesn’t work, we’ll make a new one, you don’t lose anything.
Whatever you’re doing and try to sell these positions doesn’t work like you’re screwed. Once positions go unfilled for a certain amount of time, then you’re behind and then that jams everything up the organization is doing. So it has to be a much more iterative process.
And that’s why just thinking a little more, thinking more quickly, but a little more low fi and less processed is so necessary when it comes to hiring because you don’t have the time to check every box and get every approval and do everything professional and like high quality professionally shot video and stuff like that.
You need stuff that you can make happen quickly. Yeah. And this idea of like- I posted about this today, but this whole brand alignment messaging, everything has to be like lined up otherwise people are going to be confused and questioning you and stuff. That doesn’t happen. Yeah. It doesn’t work that way. But there is this thinking that, “Oh, if everything isn’t fully consistent and aligned, people are going to think we’re just like a total mess” and it’s like, no. Or you could just have a bunch of videos where you and your team are having fun and having fun conversations with each other
and that works. Just go with that. Seriously. Like you guys are- I mean, I don’t want to, I hate to keep like blowing you up here, but some of the stuff that you just experiment with and test out, the outtake video that you did was hilarious. And I seriously would want to work for you just because you did that video because it just showed your personality.
It gave more of a look inside than if you spent $50,000 designing some career site with like EVPs and bullshit like that. Yeah. That no one’s going to see. I’ve said like social media, because we’re talking about social media for most of this, right?
That’s what’s going to drive a lot of your employer brand or whatever. It’s supposed to be fun. The entire purpose of social media was people to fuck around and enjoy themselves. Even if it’s LinkedIn, no one goes to LinkedIn because they feel like being serious. Some of the best stuff that blows up on LinkedIn
and like a lot of times it’s, someone’s tik-tok video they put over, some meme that came from some other site, you know what I mean? We’re still human. And I think that I wanted, I do want to mention this only because it kind of relates back to, it’s another kind of like- I put this in that post I had today, we were kind of talking about the same subject. But just to let you know kind of what success looks like with this stuff.
So we do something, we do this once a quarter because we don’t want to overdo it where we have literally every person in the company post that we’re hiring. So it’s whatever they want to say, however they want to say it. But we encourage people- there’s cash prizes for whoever votes on the best ones. But we promote creativity.
So we urge everyone to do a video and just like have fun with it. So the top five videos from this time, so I’ll try to describe them. I’ll try to link them when this thing eventually goes live. So Louis, he basically did a Bears superfans parody where he was talking about her hiring as Da-Coach. Like that guy. So he did that. Emily did a singing- and it has actually clips from the movie where she superimposed herself over Q sack, like a say anything holding up the- yeah, that was good.
Maggie knocked out of the- she did a hot one’s edition. So that show with the hot wings. She was trying to answer questions about how we- she couldn’t even get to the questions because the wings are so hot. Ryan took a clip from her show that she runs every Wednesday where she asks a different recruiter each week, like speed round of questions
and one of them is always, what do you like most about Hirewell, and everyone always says the people and it was 20 people in a row saying “The people, the people, the people” every single time And then Shpresa did one where- II’m still trying to figure this one out. She got, it was one of those “Come join us” at like resorts, you know what I mean?
Where the resort staff is like- then she put herself at the end, come join us at Hirewell. Those are just some examples. Like they just made this shit up on their own. They did it on their own time. And we got 91 applicants in under a week. That’s crazy. How many applicants does your crappy employer value- the EVP that you spent 50 grand on get you?
Zero. This is the thing here, where for a while I think it’s like, I think the conversation started to fade a little bit generally in the industry about employee generated content and what people thought it was. They thought it was like you buy an app or you buy a piece of technology
and then your employees can record selfie videos talking about how much they love your company, whatever. And then those get shared out on social, or they go into your career site or whatever. And I’ve talked to enough companies now who have tried that, who have said it doesn’t work.
Employees don’t care enough to create content. And when they do what we get back is unusable and it just ends up being too much work. And I’ve actually talked to some of the companies who have that technology who are trying to pivot out of it because they’re like, we thought people would care.
It seems like an obvious but they don’t. And it’s not about that. It’s about creating this culture that rallies around content and actually believes in it. And then having these processes to allow it to happen. And like that’s so different. So like, yes, the outcome we could call it, employee generated content, but the way to go about it is so completely different.
Well, it’s also because tools like that, you don’t need any of those damn tools. That’s the thing. That’s big company thinking. If you buy some complex suite of products, that’ll make the whole thing easier, but it really doesn’t because you can’t, you still have to get people to want it.
Which if you’ve got all these processes around guardrails in place, no one’s going to want to do it. You know? That’s why the- and again, this thinking about around budget, you and I don’t have any budget to do that. No. I have I’ve Nia, that’s our entire marketing budget.
Just Nia. Yeah. So let’s say- well it’s not zero, but yeah. What tools do we have besides that? Well, how much does descript cost per month? Right. Use a couple like simple video editing tools and- I got a new camera. That was 80 bucks. Oh yeah, you did. But there’s that? And so I was thinking about
Smaller companies. So, we’ll focus on like employer branding, for example, for right now. And with smaller companies, again, I’ve said this a hundred times. But it’s like employer branding falls on the lap of talent acquisition. It is like a head of talent, or even like a recruiter
who is trying to hire people, who is also thinking about employer branding and trying to figure out how do we do this? And so that person thinks that the only way for them to compete with the leaders in their category or the big brands that might be like hoovering up all the talent is to compete on brand.
And actually, I don’t think that’s true. I think that they can compete on distributing information and personality. And now that’s easier to do than ever. And the fact that employer branding is such a, I don’t know, neglected industry- the fact that nobody knows how to do it right. Very few companies are actually doing it right.
Larger companies with just bigger, more recognizable logos can just get away with shitty processes because if a candidate has two choices off the top, they’re going to go with a logo that is recognizable in their mind because to them that equals credit. But if they were to be able to judge based off of information, there’s a chance that smaller companies who are providing the right information
combined with personality could actually emerge and they can level the playing field. Yeah. I mean, I think I see that we see that a lot. In the tech sector, there’s always,- well, I hate to say it as a, not branding, but I don’t think that candidates are in general, job seekers are attracted to
big well-known companies because they’re big and well known anymore, you know? And I think that, what you were saying about people, trying to focusing just on making their brand, I agree with that it’s a mistake. It comes back to what you and I have talked about in the past. People want to work with good leaders and good people who they agree with their vision.
They get feeling that they get to know them, you know? And I think that secondary to that, they also want to work with coworkers that are cool as shit, you know? And if you can get those two things out there, you don’t need anything else. I don’t think you do either. I really don’t. It really is that simple.
I think that in terms of getting more people involved, I think it is- there’s one more step I kind of left out here because I think you have to create a community or a vibe that people want to kind of get involved in this stuff. Part of it is having like regularly scheduled meetings
everyone’s invited to, everyone’s allowed to have a voice like I mentioned, that kind of we do. So you need that. You need a leader too, to lead the way, you know what I mean? So someone’s actually showing, this is what we do. That way people can see, okay, this works. Third thing, you have to pay them. It’s work. It’s simple as like, it doesn’t need to be anything crazy, but we give out spot bonuses for people who actually- so when people create more video content on different subjects and stuff you’ll see, like they got paid for that.
There has to be a difference between the employees who go the extra mile and those who don’t. It’s totally okay if people don’t want to get involved. We don’t expect everyone in the company to get involved. Not everyone does. I know that’ll never happen. But realistically, if you can get 20% of your company who care about this kind of stuff, great! But you still need to show them the money.
That way they realize- because it’s really, everyone’s busy in our industry. Everyone in every industry, like people areslammed. So whenever you talk about this stuff, you’re talking about people doing extra work. And if that’s optional, which you want it to be optional, because if you make it compulsory, then everyone’s going to hate it.
You know what I mean? So you have to make it optional, but if you make it optional, then that means you got to throw a little cash into it. Which is fine because all the money you saved by not spending insane money on a stupid employer value proposition that no one’s going to care about, just throw that towards your employees.
Win, win. When I first started doing this, when I was with Job Portraits,
I think one of the reasons it worked so well was because it became part of my daily job. It was me taking the time to put a post together, to post it on LinkedIn, to do all the things I was doing and replying to my comments, finding other things to engage in, things like that.
Like that whole process. That time spent, the entire company saw that as valuable. As like, okay, that’s part of my job. That’s what I should be spending time on. It wasn’t something I had to do in my off hours or feel guilty about doing or anything like that. It was like, everybody wanted me to be doing that.
And so I was getting paid. Which is completely different. So I totally agree with you. I want to go back to tactically, what does this look like?
I’m going to hammer this fucking home until like, I don’t know. I don’t know for how long, but it’s just like the value of your people or somebody at your company talking about their industry at a deep level is, the value is so high that I can’t overstate it. Yeah, I agree.
I just can’t. People need to understand that you know your shit at a deeper level than anybody else in your industry. And if you can communicate that across enough, on a consistent basis, you’ll win at this thing. Literally every single person that you follow in the business world of any social media is that person. Chances are, you only know about whatever company they work at because of them. The thing is, is if I’m put on the spot and somebody asks me to give, who are the companies who are doing this well?
I can only think of two. You, Hirewell and Refine Labs. Yeah. We talked about Gravy before. I think they do pretty well with this still. I haven’t been following their stuff for awhile, but okay, Gravy. Casey’s been popping, I’ve been noticing him and I think they still do pretty well.
Yeah, no, it’s not many. It’s not many. I think it’s a, it’s more doable than people realize. I hope no one in our recruiting ever realizes it, but I don’t know. But I think that getting back to kind of the point of the show, I think that the last thing I wanted to mention- I think back to talking about kind of big companies, is that along with the bloated aspect of all of this
there’s always that feeling that it’s someone else’s job. So marketing should do this, or employer brand should do this as opposed to hiring managers and people getting involved. Because ultimately when I put things down to our level, that’s ultimately what happens is a lot of people who run the divisions
are the people who actually say, okay we want to do more of this, right. As opposed to, I think the larger the org is, there’s that compliance, the bullshit compliance part but also it’s someone else’s job. Which is why I think this is never going to happen for any large org.
But for small orgs, I don’t know. Like I said, the fact that we’ve grown 50% this year in terms of head count- and it’s not only because of this but it’s definitely a large component, it’s just that I don’t understand the business case for not doing it. I mean, it helps you do the two most important things that any companies is trying to do: hire the right people and make money.
That’s it. That’s it. So. You got anything else for this episode? For our first recorded episode? So we’ve been talking for, I don’t know. I want to say 40 minutes. I can’t tell because we didn’t start right on the hour here, we’ll see how much we cut out. So Nia’s got her work- where we edit it down to get rid of the dead spots, which I don’t think there were any because you and I know how to talk. We talk a lot.
No, this is good. This is fun. I like it. All right. Well, cool. Everyone out there, it’s a wrap for the employer content show. If you want to hear more of what Nate and I have to say, you can view all of our episodes on Hirewell Talent Insights, which is talentinsights.hirewell.com- where you can from there subscribe to the Hirewell channel on YouTube and the Talent Insights podcast on Apple, Google, Amazon, Spotify. Nate, pleasure as always.
All right, bud. Good to see you! Everyone out there, we’ll see you soon. Bye.