Women In Tech and Recruiting

One thing that you said that struck me too, Mary when you were talking about part of the imposter syndrome comes in, even once you’ve gotten past the part, you know, kind of this is what I want to do, I’m studying this, I’m moving toward this, like you’re saying, not seeing that representation

right? So whether it’s in your course of study, who were your professors, your instructors or whomever, once you got into these roles, who are on your teams, who are leading these organizations and it’s really about representation. And I want to talk a little bit about how the importance of representation and when we’re thinking about that, we’ve been talking about in tech specifically, but like in recruitment, right?

Where Pariss, this is part of your entire model, right? Like getting that representation into organizations and partnering and I’d love if you, or any of you wanted to talk a little bit about the importance of representation and how that impacts the tech landscape, any type of corporate environment and what that means for this generation and future generations, for women to be able to see themselves in the tech space.

Yeah. So for me, it’s a matter of like comfortability and feeling welcomed and feeling comfortable and feeling safe. That really matters to me because it really changes my experience in the workplace. And just even sort of like outside of that little girls on the streets, girls in school, whatever they’re taking a tour of your office.

Them seeing people who look like them on the tech team it’s like okay, wow. I really want to pursue this. I’m not going to be the only one. Like I can do it. That’s really important. And when you don’t have that, it turns people off. So it’s like, do I really want to go into a career where

I’m going to be the only one and I have to work here in nine to five every day? You spend most of your life at work. It’s not fun to think about. And it makes you wonder, is this also going to affect my opportunities that I get? Am I going to be able to get my raise? Am I going to get that promotion?

If I’m competing with all of these men, mainly white men and then even the manager, the CEO of the company, they’re white men, are they going to favor those who look like them and kind of just ignore me? All those questions are like constantly being asked in your head every single day. And it makes you feel like, is this really worth it?

And then because of that, there is a lack of representation. And then you have- you build out all these products that go on the market that they just, they don’t work well for people who don’t look like those who are actually on that team, building those things. So this goes from like the workplace into just real life into society.

There’s like this whole chain of negative impact because of that. There, I just love that. I think you’re so right of like, there’s an importance of representation. There’s a conversation to be had around equity and inclusion at work and creating an environment and an ecosystem where people can thrive inside the organization.

So like you have a recruiting strategy, but you need a cultural system that’s going to support that diversity as well. But it’s not because it’s warm and fuzzy it’s because technology should be built by a diverse group of people to support its customers. And there is a business need and responsibility for representation.

Thinking about as you’re building out a software application or a website or a new product, what is the accessibility factor in that? Who’s your end user? How are you thinking about that? If 70% of your users are women and 90% of the people developing and designing your product are men? Um, I don’t know.

I don’t care how much you use the research you do, you’re in trouble. You’re not going to be building something that’s going to be accessible. And so, there is a business case and there, I think more and more we’re seeing organizations start to recognize that because the people are voting with their wallet. And more and more, there’s more and more opportunity for diverse groups of people, developing products that do represent and support customers in their diversity

and however they might feel, you know, be represented and people are supporting those businesses because of that vision. Yeah. I really hear you all talking about, it’s not a choice, right? Like we folks, we hope, we always say with DEI that by the time most people bring us aboard that they’re past the business case, but we know that that’s not the case for everybody because everybody’s not in the same place in their journey. But when people are voting with their wallets, like you’ve got to wake up to serve the totality of those specific identifications of people who are utilizing, who are your end users and having that awareness.

Okay, Pariss I wanted to go back to something that you said when you were talking about like it’s kind of like this system that’s just a continuously perpetuating the system of whether it’s the imposter syndrome or just the low representative number of women in tech, because it’s very hard to really

take your mind to a place and really pursue something when you don’t see yourself there. But more than just the representation, like the things that you were talking about, the questions that are consistently going through your mind about, okay, I want to do this. I know I have the intellect.

I know I have the ability and I’ve gotten the access and so I’m psyched. I want to do this work, but I don’t see myself here. And so what does that mean? How is this it’s not just a matter of the fearfulness or the apprehension to study this, to interview, to fill out those applications,

you’ve gotten that role now, you’re in the organization and you talked about safety, right? Not just this idea of you’re having a preoccupation with, am I viewed the same way? Am I held to the same standard am I given the same access to opportunity? But a necessity to feel safety and that that’s something that’s harder and more absent when there’s not that representation.

Can you talk about that just a little bit more? Yeah. So for the safety aspect of it I don’t think there’s a lot of systems in place to make everyone feel safe because it’s like these companies or even there are like open source projects where they’ve established this culture that they’re okay with

Because everyone on the team is like them. And then you have to think about someone new from a different background. They look differently, they think differently, they’re coming onto the team, you have to think about how your culture that you established without them is going to impact them. And that does makes them feel unsafe?

There are no like policies or procedures in place, there is no company values, there’s nothing to like follow. There’s no structure for them to say, you know, if something negative happens, this is what I do and this is how it gets resolved. None of that is in place.

And so that leaves people really vulnerable. And it does leave them scared and it makes them questioning, again, is this something I want to continue doing? And because of that, you can’t retain those people. They’re going to leave and go somewhere that does have better structure

and has like an actual culture that looks at people as a culture add not just like come in and you’re just going to follow along with what we’ve built here and that’s that. No, it’s a great point. And I think it’s something really important for leaders and organizations to understand and realize because everyone is spouting they’ve got some kind of diversity, equity and inclusion policy, but people have to really understand that inclusion is not, people are not included because you say that you include people. People are included because they feel a sense of belonging based on those structures and the culture that you’ve built like that you’re speaking to. And I think psychological safety is not something that many people think about.

And it shows up even in the ways of say those individuals who have those feelings, but they’re excited for the opportunity and they stayed there. But those are the folks that come time for their review or things like that, a lot of times they’ve spent so much of their time trying to survive that when you don’t have that

safety, you weren’t able to move into the space where our organization is harnessing the diversity because people feel that inclusion and belonging, and now they can be innovative and they can move beyond the guise of just doing their work. And those are the folks that will get that feedback of, “We’re so excited for you to join.

You’re doing a pretty good job, but I had higher expectations for you. I wanted you to join and build – I don’t know if you’re a team player or you’re not really engaged with us the way that we thought you might have.” And that’s number one, that the culture, that’s not very malleable to that’s going to bend to accept someone.

It’s more expecting you to kind of squeeze yourself in and fit in or not fit in. And if you don’t have that safety, you’re not going to do all these backbends in this work to fit in. You’re showing up to work and you’re not going to take those next steps because you don’t feel that safety and that security or be welcomeness and part of a culture.

I think it’s something that we see very commonly with clients like spending a lot of time, energy, resources to get more diverse candidates, women, different representations into the top of the funnel, but have not audited their culture to see how and if they’re going to be able to accept and, not just accept but set folks up for success for them to thrive and grow in an organization. Right. And I don’t like recognize that when you’re coming into a culture, if you’re that first diverse hire, you’re not just going into work to do your nine to five, your other job is figuring out how do I assimilate?

How do I make people comfortable with me? How do I adapt and relate to them? What can I change about myself to make them feel better about me being here? Like that’s another nine to five emotionally and mentally and all of that. It’s a lot of work. And so yeah, that’s going to reflect what you’re doing day to day in your job and your role and your tasks and what you’re doing

because it’s just too much. It makes me call out as well or it brings to mind a call to action to leaders and specifically allyship in a lot of our white male leaders that it’s your job to, at the very least listen with an open mind. I just left a team where I was one of two technical women out of maybe 25 to 30 technical folks.

And I am outspoken. So I spoke my mind regardless, but I was told repeatedly that I should just stop taking things so negatively. And it was definitely my fault for like interpreting things so negatively, right? And that was from my leadership, from my like white male leaders. And I wonder how different things could have gone if they were in a place to acknowledge the fact that they need to take a step back and listen for a minute because I’m bringing a different perspective and a different experience than the other people on their team.

And if that breath could have been taken to listen together, like to listen and work toward a solution together, right? Maybe it would be a different story and that we could have worked to shift that culture. Because like Pariss was saying, it is a part of your job regardless. So I’m happy to step up to that

work. Let’s do it together, but I need leaders who understand that that is a part of their responsibility and that I might raise issues that they haven’t experienced and they’re still valid. Well, Mary, I want to maybe add one thing to what you said, and I so appreciate your experience and that frustration that comes from, like, please just hear me.

But I don’t actually think it’s just white men. I think it’s white women too in positions of power. I have been a white woman in power. I have been in HR for a very long time. There’s like, you know what you know, and when you know better, you do better. And so hopefully everybody’s on this journey but everybody, as you mentioned Lisa, everybody’s at a different place in that journey.

And I think a reckoning that leaders really need to have if they’re going to succeed in having a diversity strategy is really acknowledging, and I love this quote- it’s “the system isn’t broken, it’s working exactly as it was designed to work.” And so we need to dismantle that. And to your point, Mary, take a breath as leaders and do some work to find the empathy for the diverse population and underrepresented

groups that we’re suggesting that we want to bring into our organization to create that wonderful, ecosystem that we acknowledge would make our businesses and our environments better, but we don’t actually know how. And I think that that’s the work that needs to be done and not only by white men or by our allies, but there’s a lot of performative allyship out there that’s happening across the board,

not only by white men. You guys have shared phenomenal examples and I really think this is the part people are talking about DEI initiatives, but the E is always skipped over, right? First you can’t have inclusion without diversity, number one. But just because you have diversity, you can always have diversity without inclusion,

right? You have gotten your numbers up. You’ve put all these people in the funnel and you’ve done nothing to audit your systems, your processes, your infrastructure to accept and to specifically inclusion is the opposite of what Mary described. It’s when that underrepresented individual is not just welcomed but their lived experience

and then what they have to say, their POV is valued because you recognize what they’re bringing to the table might be new, different, and an opposing view to the way that things have been done. But going back to that idea of the equity piece, it’s not a part of the conversation. It’s consistently not

and honestly the diversity inclusion didn’t never come into corporate America first. It was actually the equity piece, right? So in the 1960s, when organizations are recognizing when we’ve got like IBM’s forming- black employees at IBM forming the very first employee resource group, because of specifically what we’re talking about, being underrepresented, not feeling heard, not having a psychological safety, having a necessity

to create a space in which they could do that second 9 to 5, that Pariss was speaking to, of how do we carry this? How do we shape shift? How do we show up? What words are you using? What should I say? What shouldn’t I say? What have you tried that they like and we don’t like? And it was about equity because it was about who had not been allowed or admitted

into these spaces. Of course at the time, we’re not even talking in the boardroom, we just mean in general at all, right in fortune 500 companies who have not been here. And so it’s like, okay we’re going to start hiring more brown faces, more women. That was of the idea was to equitably give access to opportunity that wasn’t open to so many before, but the system wasn’t changed from then.

And so nothing was dismantled, it was an addition. It wasn’t a true integration, right. So I’m fascinated in conversation. A big piece of what we’re talking about this of someone feeling inclusion, someone getting to that place for belonging, people like to utilize the language of we’re inclusive, you know, come as you are, bring your whole self to work.

That’s something that folks like to say, but based on the kind of the examples that you are given, it doesn’t sound like that’s always so well received when you show up as your whole self and your whole self has something to say. Many of you run your own shops

now, we’re in positions of leadership, but over the course of your career have you ever felt that you’ve been in situations where you’ve been able to bring your whole self to work? What might that have looked like? And how much does that play into your comfortability and your ability to like really integrate yourself into an organization and do your best work?

So for me, I was able to do that in one job. I worked for a completely remote company a couple of years ago, and I was the most like comfortable and happy I’ve ever been since entering the tech industry. And I think- well, remote may have been a part of the reason why I felt better, cause I’m in the comfort of my own home, in my own space, but I really did feel

leadership- like I could say the word dope. I didn’t have to say the word awesome. Like I could just literally just be me and it felt great. They were very, like, I just felt like the way the world should be, I guess? Like, I don’t have to think about diversity. The company is diverse and this is where I come from

and it’s not a conversation. We just accept that. Like cool, great. That was the best I’ve ever felt because before that I came from companies where I was constantly asked, “do you want to work here? I don’t think you’re really that happy.” Every meeting and every one-on-one I had with my manager, like, “you don’t seem happy.

Do you really want to be here?” And it’s like, I don’t know what else to do. I don’t know if I look angry. I never said anything to you about being unhappy. I don’t know why you keep asking. Just ever since I entered this industry, there was always something I was doing wrong by just being me. I just didn’t feel great about being here until I had that remote job.

That makes me so mad. I’m so sorry. Dito. I’ve been asked that question every job.

It’s just my face.

Same question. Heather or Mary, some question about bringing your whole self to work or any thoughts on the phrase at all, or even just personal experiences with that? I’ve had good moments at other tech firms, right? I started in high-frequency trading and FinTech, and there were certainly moments in the organizations where I worked, where I felt like, all right I have opportunity.

I have a voice. I feel like I can be curious and I can expose my ignorance. And I felt psychologically safe enough to do that. And that was great, but I was also very often the only woman in the room. So like those moments weren’t all the time but there were like flashes of it, right. I’ve certainly had flashes of it

as I’ve sort of transitioned my role over the years. But I think the pandemic actually made a tremendous difference for me being able to bring my whole self to work because so many other people that I was also working with also had toddlers running around behind them. And I wasn’t the only person who was now grocery shopping, washing my groceries at the time,

right? Like being a preschool mom, running a strategy for a technical organization, like being involved in people, parts of the organization. I would be on a zoom call with my four year old behind me and I wasn’t the only person doing that. So it sort of forced that a little bit. Even there, I don’t think it was like consistent.

It’s a lot easier make that than it is to bring it to another organization. We have some great questions in the chat that I wanted to get to. The first is how do you overcome the perception of being perceived as the negative outspoken woman in a culture with leaders who aren’t taking that collective breath to kind of like what you were speaking to earlier, Mary?

I would love to take a stab at that because- I don’t have a good answer, but I have a little bit of food for thought. My best answer to that question is, I don’t know if I can help solve that problem for you because that’s you problem and that’s not a me problem. Now as survival, I might curb myself and not answer, like, not speak up quite as much. But

that’s a survival instinct and not a thriving issue. But what I do think is really interesting is that there are two archetypes that I see a lot of women fall into in professionalism, very broadly speaking. If you are a career-driven woman, I see a lot of women especially when I look for role models who are older, who’ve been around the block another time or two than me,

right. Who had to fight where they weren’t having webinars like this and conversations, right? And so I see a lot of those women who have taken an archetype of shifting their behavior to match men as much as possible. And so if you can fit in and just be one of the guys and be not like those other girls and just laugh at that inappropriate Rawkus joke at the expense of other women, you can survive in that mode and

no judgment for anyone who has used that archetype to survive and make a good curve for themselves. And then I see more of my peer set, carving out the space where you are more authentic to your femininity and living in a space that is, I am a woman and I am not one of the guys and that is good.

And that’s part of our equity and inclusion, right? Is that I bring a different perspective and I am a different person. And the more I see that and articulate that I want to fall into this other category of like, Nope I’m a woman, I’m going to celebrate that aspect of myself. And part of that is that, if other people are not in a place where they’re ready to celebrate that, they are going to label me as an outspoken woman and it will be negative

and it’s going to be- and I am currently in a place, asked me in a couple of months of who knows I change, but I’m personally currently in a place where like, okay, that’s fine. It’s more important for me to be true to myself and everybody will like catch up and grow over time. Thanks so much Mary. And if I were to answer the question, I’d answer just as to that second part that you were saying, doing any teaching, moderating facilitation in diversity, equity, inclusion spaces, whether I am talking to a board of directors or leaders who are a little apprehensive early in the journey, don’t want to say the wrong thing, whatever it is

as empathetical to the situation as it might seem, leading with some of that vulnerability and transparency. So when you’re getting that feedback about, “I feel like you’re consistently negative, or I feel like whatever, whatever” give it a name and say, “Perhaps the reason that you’re taking what I have to say in a negative posture or kind of, you might feel defensive about it or feel it’s different” is I recognize that I’m representing a voice or a perspective that has not been well-represented in our organization before.

And because I am bringing to bear and to the table and giving voice to my perspective, please understand this is from my lived experience, a culturation education. So as an individual, but also as a woman. And so naturally I’m going to see, understand, perceive things in a different vein than you male leadership.

That doesn’t mean that everything I’m saying is right and everything you’ve done is wrong. It’s not always about either or particularly when we’re having conversations about DEI. That’s the place where these conversations get hampered and come to a stalemate because the idea is they want me to change or to erase or get rid of everything we’ve been doing and only hire these people,

only show up this way. It’s about that culture add. It’s about this an addition, right. Just like anything else we’re doing as a business year over year, you don’t set a business goal and you knock that goal out of the park and you go, that was so easy to reach that goal, we’re going to sit them next, same goal next year.

No you up that goal every year, 10%, 15%. So in the same way in our people space, in our culture space, it has to be about evolution. So, what you’ve been doing might have been great and serve this Oregon this way for this long, but think about all the people who I, and even me as a woman or as a person of color, as whatever, you know, as this woman, I don’t represent everybody who looks like me or comes from that background, but look at how much you’re missing.

This is how we level up. This is how we- so it’s like twofold. It’s like in being vulnerable and calling it out but then also kind of like that solutions oriented. Like I’m not here to distract or to take away or to put down, I want us all to win. We’re all on team, whatever it is. And I’m letting you know, this might be a blind spot.

It’s not always personal. It’s not just about you male leader. It might just be collectively, this is the way you guys have done things and it’s a paradigm shift takes time, right? How long have women moved from the private sphere to the public sphere, but we still are not earning at the same potential.

We’re still not represented on boards in the same, at the same amount. So it’s a journey for sure. But that’s a great question. And then there’s one other question that I’ll answer. I earlier I was talking about, the question is what does a culture audit look like when I’m talking about doing all of this hiring, but you haven’t audited your culture? A culture audit looks like any parts of your organization.

Like what is the onboarding process at your organization? What is the experience that an employee is going to have in their first few months on the job? How are people made to feel, not just welcome, but parts of teams and how are they supported? And so was that onboarding system built for folks who have a knowledge and experience in your and representation in your field?

Has it taken into account people who are first-generation college graduates? People who have not worked in tech before? People who do not see themselves represented in your org. What’s the percentage of a chance that someone’s going to have a direct manager who looks like them in any kind of way, whether that’s by gender, by race, by background, experience. Just really taking a step back and looking at the different parts of your culture and thinking about how someone who looks different than the majority of our organization, what would be their experience?

If we kind of stepped into their shoes or wanted to kind of take a little bit of an empathetic look and having conversations, can you have conversations? Would this person be able to come in and speak from their point of view as X and how would it be received? But that’s a great question.

Okay. I want to answer the rephrase question. How do you survive being an outspoken woman? If you don’t like your culture, change your culture. You can either work to change your culture internally through an employee resource group, through working with your manager, through working with your team.

You can change your culture and you can go somewhere that will respect you and will see the value that you bring to the table. And never has there been more opportunity in the marketplace and a better time where organizations are actively considering this in a transformational way, not in a transactional way when we’re talking about this DEI, and how they’re approaching what we’ve been talking about today.

You don’t like where you are and they don’t respect you and they don’t, they’re not capable of handling your outspokenness and you can’t change it, change your culture because there’s lots of opportunity out there for people that are from organizations that are looking for people like you. And every single role I’ve ever had in my professional career, somebody has said I was too outspoken,

I was too aggressive, I was too this, I was too that, I was too hostile, I was too emotional. And guess what? I’m the CEO of my own company. I have two companies. I’m making plenty of money. I’m doing just fine. And I’m hiring people and creating the space and the community that I didn’t have as I was coming up.

And that’s the way that you do that is by like looking those people in the eye and being like, I appreciate your perspective and I’m going to just going to keep on going, and get a mentor. Mentorship, sponsorship, find someone inside or outside of your organization that can help you network, hear you, hold space for you, have empathy for your experience.

That made a tremendous difference in my professional career. Yeah and honestly, I feel like a lot of people don’t want to hear this, but it’s true. At the end of the day, if you have tried everything you can or everything you want to try, it really just might come down to leaving and going elsewhere and there are plenty of companies in the world. You’ll find another. Don’t feel like you’re pressured to stay there and like completely change the culture.

That’s a lot of work for one person and if you just feel like you’re not being heard or wasting your time, go elsewhere. That’s right. That second shift work is I think, people need to acknowledge the work that, that creates for an individual and the emotional labor that, that puts on people. And if you have the space and the energy to do that, go forth and try and change your culture.

But if you don’t, it’s okay. There will be another place that will take you.

So we have about 10 minutes left. And so I know we’ve had some questions trickle in. We’d happy to answer any other questions if anyone wanted to submit them in the Q&A portion. While we’re waiting for folks to do that, you all brought up the concept of mentorship

or sponsorship. Might any of you willing to talk a little bit personally about how that’s helped you in the tech and recruiting spheres personally, or how you’ve provided that to other folks? It’s always great for people to get an understanding of how these, how powerful and in what ways these might show up.

I haven’t done a lot of mentorship myself, but I have mentors. One of them was my bootcamp instructor. I still like talk to him to this day and he helps me with just answering questions about running my business and how to really go about it and do what’s best. And so for me, I’ll reach out to him once in a blue moon and be like, “Hey, what do you think about this?”

Or “I’m having trouble with this. Can you help me?” And I mean, I have mentors for very different things. I will say there’s like this conversation happening right now on Twitter, about mentorship and like if it’s paid or not. From my experience, I’ve never paid a mentor. I’ve paid coaches or consultants.

I don’t know if everyone’s has sort of like the same definition or model for mentors. That’s at least what I do.

That’s a great question Pariss or this idea of paid mentorship. I think some of that probably comes from and mentorship, it doesn’t always have to be someone that you know or had a close relationship with, but more than likely it’s like you said, this gentlemen was your bootcamp instructor. So you had an extended period of time when you were studying, taking that course of study and you’re interacting and learning.

And so he or and you mutually identified something in each other or comfortability to start having these conversations. I think what happens now, especially in the technology age with social media and things like this, influencers, thought leaders, we have access, right? You can send somebody, anybody in the world a LinkedIn message.

You can send anybody on Instagram a LinkedIn message. And so I think frequently people who are trying to chart a course to whether it’s to build a business or build a brand or whatever it is, they will send those, can I pick your brain messages out to someone who you have no relation to and they don’t owe you anything.

And so I think that some of that, where that do you pay a mentor? But that’s a different type of, like you said, that’s a more of a consulting type of you’re looking for some of these subject matter expertise and you don’t have a personal relationship or potential network connection that can liaison you.

And so then what is the expectation on someone’s time? And I think that’s a little different than mentorship or sponsorship. Though there are ways that you can ask for informational interviews of people you want to get into a field and you’re not familiar with it, you know. But a lot of times it’s the approach, right?

How gracious are you in really talking about you’ve been following someone’s work, you personally have these interests. You’re not 100% sure how to get into an industry. Can I buy you a cup of coffee? Are you open to an informational interview? That’s a different conversation than “can I pick your brain about how you built your business and built your brand?

And I’ve been following you since you have this many followers.” That’s a different conversation, But great. Anybody else? We have a great question in the chat. How do you overcome your personal self doubt? So yes, imposter syndrome, but if you are overworking to compensate for never feeling like you work hard enough or contribute enough.

Gratitude practice. I’m a type A woman, I’m very hungry, I’ve been very career oriented. My entire life I’ve had two different careers. I was in the arts before I moved into tech and human resources and recruiting. And I think I’ve real hard on myself for a real long time. And it wasn’t until I like discovered Bernay brown, Saint Bernay.

And this book, the gifts of imperfection changed my life- changed my life in being able to look at like, what do I bring to the table and how much do I need to bring to the table? And there’s a difference between being the best and doing your best and being okay with doing your best at the end of the day and acknowledging that and giving yourself grace and gratitude and being thankful for what you’ve had, is to completely change how I approach my career.

Yeah. And personal life too, right? Gratitude practices. Great. And I think in speaking to- and biased, I’m a native Houstonian like Bernay. So sometimes I just put her on just to feel like home, because she sounds like every grade school teacher I ever had. You can look into the book, but I think that in this kind of mindset and I identify absolutely as being type A as the only child, first child, as you know, first-generation American from, you know, my parents are immigrant, like the whole like pilot on. Like I’m not doing enough, need to do better, whatever.

Perfectionism is something to look into, right? If you, I would say suffer from perfectionism and really digging deeper, not just identifying like kind of doing a little bit of emotional intelligence, self reflective work, but digging into the why. What parts of yourself and your worth are tied to

how you show up the work that you do, whether it might be your physical appearance, the work you do, like there’s something necessitating the need for you to feel that you’re not doing enough, that you’ve consistently got to do more or got to do better. And what is it that you’re looking like, what is the outcome that you’re looking for?

And what’s kind of feeding that? And so even in the gratitude practice, just taking a step back and thinking through the part that, what are those things that are day to day, we all take for granted, right? But that are going so great and so well, and sitting with your own gifts. There are things that you are fantastic at.

Even kind of going back to that idea of being perceived negatively, the ways that I can show up most positively and put those things on display, because I know that I’m a rockstar at X, Y, and Z, and love myself for those things, right. Because I think too, all of this is foundational to

really bolstering your confidence to show up in those ways at work, right? As a woman, as a member of a team, as a potential leader, all of that, it’s like we’ve got to see it in ourselves before we can bring- hold people to the fire to recognize it in us. And this starts from when we’re talking about the recruitment part, like knowing our worth. We know the statistics around you do get that offer and you’re just like, “oh my God, I’ve been wanting to work for this firm or this startup.

I can’t believe I landed this job.” And it’s like, are you negotiating that salary? Are you laying out those terms from the jump? Are you setting professional boundaries? Are you all of these things that those are those holdovers from what we talked about in the beginning, you know, women being a young girl being indoctrinated to have certain beliefs about what we can and can’t do, what we should or shouldn’t do, the spaces where we belong and where we don’t.

And so being able to make sure that we’re not just holding other people accountable to the way they treat us, but how we’re holding ourselves accountable to what we’ll accept. I think it’s a really good practice.

So the last thing I’d say is, I don’t know if anyone’s familiar with Hustle Twitter and stuff, but there are certain phrases that I will mute because they just- I don’t want to feel like I have to work, work, work, because life is more than that. So if there’s anything that makes me feel like I’m not doing even though I’m pretty sure I am,

I’m going to mute it. Like I don’t want to see it. So I just get it out, whatever that means. I remove it from my life. And the other thing I like to do is set really small goals. So like I have this top three daily priorities journal by Erin on demand. And what you do is you write your top three goals to do for the day, and then you can put in your other tasks

that you have to do. But as long as you have accomplished those top three, you’re good. You can move on to the other tasks another day. And it’s like, no matter how big or small those tasks are, I accomplished it and now I can like, relax. Like I did what I had to do for the day I can move on to tomorrow.

It just makes me feel better. And that’s what really what matters, how you feel and it reflects in your performance day to day. So true. I want to thank you all for joining us so much. I really enjoyed the panel. I’m consistently learning.

I really appreciate it. I’m so happy to make community with you all. I want to thank everyone for tuning in. We’re so excited. We hope that some of these nuggets are really going to help you day to day on your teams and your organizations, and personally. And finally, I want to thank Jack and Robyn again from Hirewell

for consistently putting together fantastic panels on great topics and we look forward to our next conversation. Thanks everyone. Thank you everyone.