Between Two Hires with Special Guest Krista Tan

[00:00:00]

[00:00:10] Krista Tan. Nice to see you. How are you? Oh, I’m good, Tom. Really, really good to see you. It’s been so good reconnecting and excited to be here chatting with you. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, of course. 2013, I believe it was we first crossed paths with Premiere and we’ve both gone on to do some pretty interesting things since then.

[00:00:28] And what a time that was as well. I remember so fondly everything under the roof at Premiere. It was just a great place to be. Yes, it sure was. Yeah. We had some fun times. We also worked our booties off and that’s the best of both worlds, right? You’re doing something that you love and is really fulfilling and working really hard, but also enjoying all the fruits of those labors, right?

[00:00:52] Yeah. and good people. That was one of the things that stood out to me. We had such good people on the team. So, took a lot from that. [00:01:00] Really interested just to kind of get a sense for what you’re up to now. I see you everywhere on LinkedIn, Natalie as well. It looks like you guys are sort of exploding in all the right ways.

[00:01:09] Can you tell us a bit more about what you want? Absolutely. Yeah. So, I’m co founder of Talent Collective. We are a community for women in the talent acquisition space. So we were founded about a year and a half ago, almost two years ago now. And, we have just exploded. We have about 550 members globally now.

[00:01:30] We are actually going to have an event in, London in a few months. I don’t know if you’ll still be there, but let’s talk about that offline. And yeah, so we, we provide just a lot of support, both from like a networking and connection standpoint, but also professional development for our members and really the community at large.

[00:01:48] It’s not just all about people that are signed up as a member of talent collective, but really. We love to give back to the community and, help people really grow in their careers, empower women in the [00:02:00] recruiting space, and help those women support each other too, because there’s so much power in the community when we all get together and work towards things collectively.

[00:02:09] I love it. And I love to see so many familiar faces in various cities around the U. S., like some people we have in common, and it’s just good to see what you’ve been building. So congrats on your success thus far. Thank you. Thank you. It’s been fun. Yeah. So, to kick off, curious to understand a bit more about how many you’ve hired over the course of your career.

[00:02:30] What are the numbers? Yes. Oh, my goodness. So I’ve been recruiting since 2008. And when I started my recruiting career, I was on the temp staffing side. So, 2008, as you can imagine, was very slow. It was kind of like the hardest time, I think, to get into recruiting, which it was a recession. But over the next couple of years we really expanded and grew.

[00:02:52] And at one point I was placing hundreds of people every month, on a temporary capacity, but you know, still numbers are numbers. So I have to say [00:03:00] that numbers in the thousands, it’s kind of hard to wrap my head around that now years later. But I did temp for many years now I consult and, I’ve worked internally as well.

[00:03:09] So, obviously placed a lot of people, you know, in FTE roles as well. So yeah, thousands, I guess. Yeah. And you can’t get more well rounded than that. I think it gives you such a great balance and different perspective on hiring both from the temp and then full time capacity. It’s a very unique balance and I’m sure something that’s gained you quite a lot over the time that you’ve done it.

[00:03:30] Yeah, absolutely. Well, and you’ll, you’ll hear some fun stories from those temp days in a few minutes. Yeah. Well, let’s get straight into that then. So of those stories, keen to understand or hear a bit more about the best and maybe worst hiring surprises that you have. Yeah. You know, the, the story that I always just comes to mind when one of my favorite stories, and actually I have two really fun success stories and they’re both from one of my clients years ago, Pandora.

[00:03:58] So [00:04:00] as I mentioned, I was on the temporary staffing side, so we would get like random, like super random gigs.  So one of these random gigs, you know, we were downtown San Francisco, so all sorts of companies would come and want to promote their product in like Union Square or like on Market Street in, downtown had a client, don’t even remember the name of them, but they wanted a candidate to wear a gorilla costume, handing out bananas with their logo on it.

[00:04:28] So as you can imagine, that was. Kind of a hard role to find someone to do because you know, we mostly staff professional roles So can you imagine trying to like call a professional being like hey Do you want to stand out on the corner of Market Street handing out bananas in a gorilla costume? But there was this one kid who like he was like a recent college graduate and he wanted to get into accounting But he was like, I also just need to earn some money.

[00:04:51] So I called him up He seemed like he had a good attitude. So I called him up He’s like, great. I’ll be there. Like when and where, you know, tell me where. So he did it. [00:05:00] Great attitude. You know, he got great reviews from the client. A couple of days later, I got a call from Pandora Pandora and they were basically like, we need an accounting assistant.

[00:05:09] And the person doesn’t really have to have, you know, any accounting experience. And it was one of those rare occasions where they didn’t need to interview and we could just send them someone. So as you can imagine, this guy was my first call, my only call. And he was like so excited about it. Showed up, ended up staying with Pandora, I think for over 10 years and like grew in his role there and just ended up being, you know, making a career out of out of that role.

[00:05:34] And, you know, I just still remember that really fondly because it was 1 of those situations where it was like. This kid had like such a good attitude and then right time, right place. I got the perfect role for him and he ended up at an amazing company and amazing team and, and grew his career out of that.

[00:05:51] So that was a fun one.  I have another fun one from the Pandora days. So, you know, and on the temp side you [00:06:00] get these calls like we need a front desk receptionist today, right? And it’s like already 10 a.m And you’re like, who am I gonna send over there? Well rather than like Start making these crazy calls and trying to get someone over there.

[00:06:13] I knew my next interview which was in like five minutes I had a gal coming in that was the sister of someone who was Phenomenal. And so I was like, you know what, I’m just going to go into this interview and see how she is, like, maybe she’s my gal and she ended up being my gal. And so we, we had our, you know, 20 minute interview and I was like, so are you free today?

[00:06:35] And she was like, yeah, why? And I was like, well. Can you hop on BART, get to Oakland today and be at the front desk at Pandora? And she’s like, I’ll be there in 30 minutes. And she was also one of those just like hugely wildly successful people that, you know, that was kind of her break into this like tech world.

[00:06:53]  And I think she ended up in product management. Like she sat at the front desk for a few months and then they were like, saw her [00:07:00] potential. So yeah, so those are some of the fun stories from back in the day that I just, I love. Thinking about and remembering. A gorilla outfit, not a request you get on a, on a daily basis.

[00:07:12] And then it seems like it, in other cases, it runs in the family, but great stories because you can see that’s just the entry point. And then they can build once they’re in there. So that’s the joys of TEMP. Okay. So moving on, to some insights on your secret to recruiting or sourcing top talent, if you don’t mind sharing it.

[00:07:35] I don’t mind sharing. And you know, it’s not anything crazy. Like I’m not the kind of person that’s going to go into these like secret chat rooms or like, you know, I’m not a discord person. I don’t really, I don’t. I, I did engineering hiring for about a year and a half, but that’s really not like where my specialty as I’m more go to market and anything really GNA.

[00:07:57] So the thing I like to do, and I [00:08:00] usually recruit for companies that have very low budgets, right? So I’m not using a LinkedIn recruiter license. Like, I don’t think I’ve ever actually had a LinkedIn recruiter license. But what I like to do, so, you know. The other thing I’ve learned over the years is not every candidate is on LinkedIn.

[00:08:15] Right? And not every candidate that is on LinkedIn is actually engaged on LinkedIn. So,  what I like to do to keep costs low is I’ll, keep a LinkedIn recruiter light license. So I at least have access to that and I have the search functionality. And I have my certain number of messages every month.

[00:08:32]  .But then I’ll have an outside sourcing tool too. So that’s really kind of helping me to gain access to all of those candidates that aren’t on LinkedIn. and, or to be able to get email addresses, right. And to be able to do that, like cold email outreach. So,  that’s just my secret sauce is, I have two tools, but it usually costs me no more than, you know,

[00:08:51] 300, 400 a month versus 1, 000 or however much LinkedIn is charging for the LinkedIn recruiter license right now. So yeah, just keeping it, [00:09:00] you know, kind of low cost. And I feel like I get the best of both worlds and can usually fill a search easily with those two methods. I love that. Cost effective and you’re not having to refinance your house to pay LinkedIn for that recruiter seat.

[00:09:14] So over the years, Krista, you must have had thousands and thousands of interviews. I’m very excited to hear sort of the weirdest interview moment you’ve experienced, if you can think of a standout. Yeah. You know, this is actually a sad, sad one. So, This was back in the very, very early days of Premiere, and it must have been either 2008 or 2009, like, before the economy really started to pick back up.

[00:09:42] And so we had, you know, an office in downtown San Francisco, and it was just such a desperate time for people that couldn’t find work and who were, you know, about to get kicked out of their apartment or, you know, couldn’t feed their kids or what have you. And so it was, it was really [00:10:00] challenging for many people looking for work.

[00:10:01] It was challenging being on the recruiting side because literally no companies are hiring. And yet there’s all these people beating down your door, like help me. And you’re on the temp side. So they’re like, they’re like, just, just place me somewhere. Just put, you know, so there’s this woman who showed up at premier in the office and she, we basically said like, okay, great.

[00:10:22] Like our kind of like intake process was like, give us your resume. You know, we had the paper resumes back then. Give us your resume. We’ll see if there’s a recruiter available. No one was available. And then Jill, our, our front desk gal for many years, she was just so good with people and in her very, very kind, sweet Jill way, you know, had to turn this woman away because no one was available.

[00:10:41] And I mean, she lost it. Like she had a meltdown, a breakdown right there, was screaming at poor Jill and like demanding that she be saw for an interview. And I remember Sarah, our CEO, who also is just wonderful with people, [00:11:00] came out and had to talk to this woman. And we basically had to call the security of.

[00:11:05] Of the office. Yeah. Of the building to have her basically get kicked out because it was just, you know, and Sarah almost had like an impromptu interview with her right then and there, because, you know, Sarah knew how to diffuse and she knew how to just work people. So she just, in her kind of Sarah, Sarah way, you know, kind of like took her through like a 3 minute screening interview and, and told like, just to try to like, calm her down.

[00:11:31] But the woman said still like kind of knew she was being played in a way and knew that we weren’t going to be like interviewing her that day. So she had to call security. It was just, you know, it was, it was awful, but it was just a sign of the times. And you know, sometimes I think about what we’ve gone through these last couple of years.

[00:11:49] The market and all of these recruiters being laid off and the hiring within specifically tech and thinking about those days and thankful that we didn’t, I’m not in an office. Right? Because I think [00:12:00] we, I would have received similar vibes and, Glad we’re hopefully coming out of that. It feels like we’re, things are improving, right?

[00:12:09] Right. Yeah. I definitely feel that the market is in a better position than we’ve been in the last couple of years. It seems to be trending that way. That’s a great example. A sad one, but also a sign of the times and sort of where that can lead someone. Interview questions or tactics. Do you have a secret or unconventional, unconventional one?

[00:12:36] Yeah. You know what, I, I chose to talk about something instead of an actual interview tactic. Something that I’ve never used before in the recruiting process that I’m using at a company that I feel like is so effective, especially given the way that candidates are using AI now, right? So candidates are just mass applying.

[00:12:58] They don’t even know what companies [00:13:00] they’re applying to because this AI tool is doing it for them and, you know, customizing their resume and, all of these things, which make it much harder for the recruiter on the receiving end to really decide and filter down who’s actually qualified. So I’ve started using application questions in the interview process.

[00:13:17] So, candidate has to actually respond to interview questions. And I’m actually really curious to hear your take on this, Tom, because you obviously focus on sales hires. Salespeople don’t typically enjoy writing paragraphs on paragraphs. About their experience or their interest in this role. Right. But I’ve found it really effective in the last couple of positions that I’ve hired for to weed out, like, who’s actually interested in this role.

[00:13:43] Who’s actually using, I mean, you can tell who’s using chat GPT or AI.  The, answers start to sound exactly the same. Right. So who’s actually writing an authentic response like from themselves or at least taking their AI response. And like, [00:14:00] customizing it and rewriting it in a way that’s an authentic voice to themselves.

[00:14:04]  But that’s been helping me on, on the recruiting side to really like know, okay, there’s an actual person behind this who wants this job and application questions have been helping with that. What is your take on that? I’m curious. I love it. I think that with the advent of AI in the application process, it’s hard to sort of disseminate oftentimes.

[00:14:28] So I think sort of turning it around, utilizing that is a really strong way of getting to know if the candidate’s right or not for the role. I think it’s a unique way of doing it. So, and that, have you found the responses to be, sort of plentiful, like colorful? Like what, what’s that garnered for you?

[00:14:45] Yes, 100%. So, the company that I’m doing it for is a nonprofit. So they really care a lot about candidates being mission driven. Like the, that the candidate has actually looked into what [00:15:00] their mission is and like can articulate it. Right. So it’s helped us with that. Like, I mean, there are candidates who literally put N A or this is an interview question.

[00:15:09] I’m happy to discuss this in the interview and like. This company doesn’t want to see that response. And so that’s kind of an immediate DQ, right? What’s interesting is I’ve run probably about eight searches for them this way already, and it’s been, hugely successful. I’m now running a chief growth officer role.

[00:15:28] So we want someone with a sales background. And the answer answer is that you can tell like much more brief, but you can tell when someone actually cares about the job, right? So they’re, instead of saying NA or like, I’ll answer this in an interview, they’ll give a very brief but effective response to it.

[00:15:46] so I’m, I’m finding that for that role, it’s, it’s still helping me to weed people out. I haven’t started meeting people yet for the role, but I just kicked it off late last week. So anyways, it’s, it’s helping me. So maybe it’ll help someone else who’s listening as well. [00:16:00] Yeah, I hope it does. And then speaking of maybe advice, so for those that may be fresher into the talent acquisition journey or career, what’s your most important piece of sort of wisdom on hiring that you wish you’d known earlier?

[00:16:16] Yeah. So I’m a very, I’m like an instant gratification person. And so you can see why the temp side works so well for me. Cause it’s just like, bam, bam, bam. I never pushed people into a role that I knew wasn’t right for them, but I think I moved too quickly many times. And so what I’ve learned now over the last 15 plus years is a bad hire is worse than a slow hire.

[00:16:43] Right. It costs more cause it costs the company more. So sometimes. It makes more sense to really do all the work up front that you need to do to make sure you have even the profile.  Right? Because, like, I used to just jump into searches and like, [00:17:00] want to execute and want to get the hiring manager, you know, people, but like, if you’re not getting them the right people, it just wastes so much more time at the start of things.

[00:17:09]  So I’m learning to be a little more calculated and thorough in the beginning of my process now. Yeah, it’s very, that’s sage, sage advice. I think also the reflection on temp and how that sort of differentiates from, is a good, good one to make. Back to the talent collective, and for anyone that might be listening.

[00:17:32] Who should reach out to you, who should get in touch, maybe if you want just to speak to that because I’d love to open this up to maybe those that are unaware of you at the moment and should be aware of you for those reasons. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. So yeah, so, as I mentioned earlier, we’re a community for women in TA.

[00:17:51] So if you’re a woman or you identify as a woman, and you’re either, you know, in a recruiting seat or leading a recruiting function, could even be, you know, ahead of [00:18:00] people. That was actually my last role when I was, at a series, a startup, I was over both HR and talent, talent acquisition, I should say.

[00:18:07] You know, really there’s women of. Agency, internal and everything in between in talent, collective, RPO, et cetera. so really any women that is interested in, in building more communities, so networking, making those stronger connections, helping to be empowered in their recruiting journey, learning leadership.

[00:18:28] Skills, you know, best practices. We talk a lot about tools and AI and, and all of these things. So, if you’re feeling like isolated, maybe you work from home or maybe you’re on a team of one. But even like women that are internal and on these huge teams, you kind of get siloed, right? Like you get siloed into like

[00:18:45] just doing what your team and your company are doing. So Talent Collective really helps to give women a broader, perspective on what’s going on in the market, because you’re really talking to and learning from a lot of other women. So, [00:19:00] yeah, so we’d love to hear from anyone who is listening right now and, and curious and, and wants to build some community,

[00:19:06] feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. That’s probably the best way to get in touch. Good stuff and strengthen numbers and I love again what you’ve been building there. Definitely recommend reaching out to Krista and team. And yeah, I think we’ll wrap it there, Krista. Thank you very much. Yeah, really nice to be on, Tom.

[00:19:23] Thanks for having me. Appreciate your time. Thank you.