June 9, 2021

What Candidates Want to Know: Marketing Edition


Partner at Hirewell. #3 Ranked Sarcastic Commenter on LinkedIn.

Episode Highlights

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What makes job seekers tick? That’s at the heart of the “What Candidates Want to Know” series.

Instead of making assumptions, go directly to the source. Nate Guggia and James Hornick are surveying and interviewing professionals in different fields. How do they make decisions about their careers? What questions do they ask in interviews? If you know that…then you know how to better attract them to your company with content.

Next up: marketers.

Partner at Hirewell. #3 Ranked Sarcastic Commenter on LinkedIn.

Episode Transcript

Welcome to the employer. Content show part of the talent insight series brought to you by hire well, and before you apply, I’m your host, James Hornick joining me is my co-host from before you apply Nate, the great Guggia
There we go. Have you seen Ted lasso? I’ve just watched the first episode, but I know everybody loves it. Yeah, well, Nate, the great is that’s the reference there I’m like hope he has seen that show. So he catches the reference, but whatever anyways. All right. So what we want to talk about today, this is part two of the series we started.
It was based upon gathering real feedback from real people instead of making assumptions. What candidates want to know the marketing edition? Now, again, just kind of doing a quick, quick recap. The reason why we’re doing this is our central thesis is if you want to attract better talent, you want to attract more talent.
You can do so by talking about the things that are relevant to job seekers, job candidates. Middle to late process. So things that questions they ask in interviews, things they like to dig into things they want to know before accepting an offer, bringing it up to the top of the funnel. So leading with that, since that’s the stuff they really care about.
Which is which frankly, most companies do not do. I’ve seen very few that do, but that’s what will get people interested. You just go over the top of the amount of information you provide and on the front end, and that will attract not just more people, but the right people. You’ll also save time in terms of people who are going to eventually realize they’re not a fit for your organization.
You’ll figure that stuff out sooner too. But, and this can all be done through content and that can be anything that can be a podcast that can be social posts. That could be your job ads. That can be your recruiter outreach. That can be. Your imagination is the limit, but these are the things you should be talking about.
So go directly to the source and that’s where we are. So we did a survey. For this one. So I, we asked some basic questions about kind of industry level, all that kind of stuff. And this was just for marketers. There was a really broad mix of industries. So I felt like that the base is recovered there.
So like public sector, manufacturing, financial services, a lot of SAS, software people, some agency, people, health and wellness, people e-commerce engineering, construction, retail a lot of different areas were kind of represented here. It was pretty senior, so Like 10% executives, 50% senior management types, maybe 30% senior executor’s I think there’s only one per person who was kind of junior who responded.
And there were several dozen kind of respondees here. Half of them we’re looking currently. Which I thought was interesting. The other half looked either this year, last year, so everyone’s pretty fresh, you know, in terms of like, they’re, they’ve been interviewing either now or had been interviewing fairly recently and landed a job.
Maybe the only question I, everyone kind of, I asked, identify, look, what, what area? They’re lots of digital people at this point. Everything’s digital though. So Maple’s a stupid question to ask, but some people say the more brand marketers, whatever, but Anyways. So we got a lot, but there were three main questions.
It basically, they’re really trying to get at the same thing. So we’re trying to figure out what do you want to know? And we kind of asked. On the front end, before where the recruiter reaches out to you, what would you get back on what you asked her in the interview process? What do you ask when you’re making decision?
You know, what would you want to know? Really, it’s all kind of the same thing though, because people just want to know information in different kind of stages. So we’re trying to ask the same question, a few different ways to get the info. And so the first thing I realized was we talked about this before the show.
It was very open-ended and. I’ve I’ve said this for years and it kind of half joking, half serious way. People, people don’t know how to search for a job. Like I’ve, I haven’t searched for job in 15 years. Like, that’s kind of the other thing, you know, but people don’t, if you ask them an open-ended question, people might not even know.
I know what to ask for. So the stuff that was actually the most common was probably the least interesting. So everyone said salary compensation. What’s the work-life balance. What’s the culture like what’s the location. Okay. That’s so basic. Doesn’t like, no, one’s going to come to your company because you provided the that’s the stuff they expect to see, not the stuff that’s going to wow.
Anybody, which is really what kind of the purpose of this was. And then what I also found interesting was there was a pretty stark contrast. You could tell right away, who’s been burned by a former employer because they had really granular things. They look for. Versus who hasn’t yet because they only look for the very basic stuff.
And I think that the people who have been burned before, cause again, this is not about how to convince those individual candidates, but how to attract more of everybody. Right? And the more granular you can get with those types of things, you’re doing the things that other companies wouldn’t even think of doing, and you’re going to stand out, but we can get into those.
I think you should kind of lead though. Cause you were talking about junior marketers. Cause that kind of goes into this. Yeah. I think it’s worth mentioning that, the show we did previous year, the previous show, the one about sales, I went into that one, you know, like having a good number of conversations and like.
I guess, like I’m more of a sales person myself, so I kind of knew what to expect and going into this one. I didn’t know what to expect, even though like now I would very much consider myself to be more of a marketer than a sales person, but I think I’ve just kind of grown into that role, like naturally.
It wasn’t like something like I set out to do out of school professionally, you know? So like I didn’t take this traditional path. So I kinda went into this like super curious and And not really knowing what to expect when I, when I looked at like the common themes of the results I saw, I saw that junior marketers could be especially susceptible to getting burned.
The reason for that is like, I think a lot of companies just don’t know what they’re doing when it comes to marketing. This could be a couple of different reasons. It could be that like one, of course, like it’s just not valued. The company doesn’t really understand why they’re doing marketing. They just know that they need to do it.
And that it’s like the thing you do to like, maybe make money, right. Like there’s something, but then also too, I mean, there could be like, Old school leaders who just have been in the seat for like longer than they should be. And like, aren’t really adapting to what’s like going on in the market and they’re not always like on the cutting edge and if you’re not experienced and you haven’t, let’s say been burned before or experienced like the upside of like working with a CEO or CMO who just like really gets this stuff.
You’re not going to know what to look for in an opportunity. And you could. You can talk to a recruiter or you could read a job description, or even like, look at a fancy logo and think that this company knows a lot more than they actually do. And then get inside and realize like, man, this, this is a mess.
And like, I don’t, I’m not going to have the opportunity to grow, like I want to. And so the biggest thing that I, that I saw for a junior person is to like really like overemphasize. The value of a leader who knows what they’re doing. And then, you know, if you reverse that into the things that like we talk about, which is companies in their content, like if you’re, if you have like a really smart marketer on your team, or who’s leading this charge, or even a CEO who doubles as your, as your CMO Figuring out a way to like, get those thoughts out of their head and out so people can see that it’s going to go there.
Yeah. I agree in it. It’s harder. It’s a level more difficult than it would be communicating that to a junior marketing person that will be a junior sales person. Yes. And I only say that from the standpoint of how to articulate, you can be ho hugging, articulate. You can do well here in sales, you can usually just show them the numbers as long as they’re real numbers of.
How many people are doing well, what they’re making, you know what I mean? Trust the process to an unsophisticated kind of junior level person to marketing. It’, not always that evident what good looks like. And I guess to your point, if you can get someone who’s whoever’s in charge can articulate these things in a way, how we’re different from other places, or here’s why you should look at us versus someone else.
Here’s the, one of the challenges in the industry you need to look out for almost as like a guidance type of thing, built into your recruiting pitch that come up. So the guys and that kind of dovetails in the first one. Okay. So there were one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Eight things, the first one kind of dovetailed together, but these are the eight, eight findings that I thought were interesting.
That will differentiate you from other companies that are out there. Can’t believe we can talk for 10 minutes already here. First one. And the first one raise that CEO is the leadership and this was different than in the sales. So people were talking about describe marketing leadership. Is there a CMO, legit CMO, not a fake VP who’s reporting to him is Nicole reporting executive, does marketing have a seat at the table who fills it?
But also kind of looped into, I think we got the same thing for a head of sales, but the thing was different here is there are a few people who were talking about not just the CMO, but the CEO. Right. Because I think that’s one challenge. That’s this fits with all the discourse I see kind of within the marketing community, is that, does the CEO understand what the hell marketing actually does?
Yeah. And see all CEOs understand what sales does, right? Like you can like, they sell stuff, but like not all of them understand what marketing does. So there’s a lot of marketers. It’s probably even more true that further higher you go up the chain that wants to know not just the CEO’s pretty legit, but the CMOs pretty legit, but the CEO is pretty legit and really kind of understand is clear on the concept of what they’re trying to do.
And it also kind of dovetails into like, does the COO or the COC kind of this function as a support function or do they see it as a revenue driver? I think that’s one of the key, like high level, one of the key things too. I think that and that kind of dovetails into the second thing I wanted to kind of talk about briefly the kind of the second point, which is very related.
Is it an administrative function or is it strategic, strategic business function? That’s something that a lot of people straight up wanting to know. So are they, are they simply keeping the train moving or is there a plan to make it go faster? Do things cheaper. Is there opportunity to make a difference or you just kind of taken care of the marketing basics?
Yeah. All right. No, no, I I’m thinking of something, but I just want to make sure I inserted at the right time. Yeah. And then the third part that these three kind of dove into is what’s the relationship with sales. Yeah. And I think that also is kind of thing. Are they work closely together? What kind of, what kind of collaboration is there?
And I think that once again goes back to, cause a lot of times when people say marketing is like an administrative function, it’s a sales support function in those environments versus being an actual revenue driver. And I think that means if we want to talk about all the other discourse we see kind of within the marketing community, I mean, it’s, it comes down to demand gen versus lead gen.
Yep. So, and I think that’s ultimately at the crux of this is. Does the CEO CMO, like, are they in a that they understand that difference between those two functions? Do they see this as, as a demand gen function when you’re actually creating demand for the product, the service, whatever driving revenue that way, or are you just trying to get leads a lot of what your BS leads you’re rated on?
How many leads you can create and pass over to the sales team? Are you working for them or are you working for the CEO to actually drive revenue? And I think that’s the thing. If you can create. Con, if, if, if you’re in that camp, the demand gen camp, you need to be talking about that you do. Yeah, because marketers, this is like the number one, cause all three of these kinds of dovetail together, which is kind of wanting to run through them real quick.
This is something that everyone, especially anyone experienced right now is really attuned to because everyone’s had the experience of working for someone who it’s a sales driven organization that doesn’t get what we’re doing here at marketing. No one wants to go there again. And I feel like I still see people.
Who’ve the other thing that’s kind of always funny about this is like, Everyone thinks they get marketing, like every CEO in the world. Like they think they get marketing, even the ones who don’t, especially the ones who don’t. So it’s, that’s why I think it’s important to whatever your messaging is.
Like. It has to be able to articulate on a little more granular level, what the plan is. How you’re rated on success. You know, what your strategy, what strategy is in place, get the COO talking. What’s their background, you know, yada yada yada. Yeah. Okay, so, so what I’ve been thinking about this this whole time is like, as a, just as a candidate, this is hard, this isn’t as easy as like you were saying with sales, or like even like other.
I dunno, other roles. It’s hard to, because so many, because there’s so much terminology and so many things can like sound good, honestly. You get through like a bunch of words together and when it comes to marketing and go like, Oh, that sounds pretty good. But but like below the surface, there’s a lot that goes into this, this function being successful.
And I’m thinking like, There’s there’s like this mindset and approaches to like these different types of marketing and how just getting an explanation of like your, how you view. Brand versus demand versus lead. And like what, what kind of like creative runway a marketer can have, like when they, when they join your team and the ability to both like, accomplish, like helping you reach business goals and like revenue objectives, and at the same time helping you like build brand, and is it just like one over the other and like, how much do you emphasize each of those then?
There’s just a lot that goes into this. And there’s like, w which is like, It’s great for somebody who has answers to all of those things, because that’s a whole lot of content that you can create that helps guide your candidates along and actually like enables your candidates to ask the right questions or ask for more senior people who are like, really thinking about this.
It just answers their questions at the top of the funnel, but there’s the opportunity for like really savvy marketing departments to create some cool, like, How we do stuff, content here that can just be a great resource for candidates in general. I’m thinking about like, sorry, I’m going off on a tangent here, but I’m thinking about like how, how a marketing.
Team can both like help their specific candidates, but also like help influence candidates in general, as like, these are the things that you should be looking for in a company who gets their shit. Yeah. A hundred percent. And that’s why I was actually having, this is a conversation I was having like an hour ago with someone about I think marketing is the perfect area where the best way to attract candidates is just giving away your cookbook.
Talking about what your actual process is, how you’re going about it, what your playbook is, because it’s not like it’s not like sales where someone can replicate your exact pitch to your exact same clients. You know what I mean? If they’re in a different marketing, different niche, like you’re, it’s, it’s not a zero sum game, but it’s also, it’s an, it’s an opportunity to actually display.
How you think differently about whatever kind of business problem you’re trying to solve. Yeah. So you’re, you’re doing exactly that you’re instead of saying yes, instead of just saying we, we value marketing, like you’re actually explaining how. You know what I mean? And at the same time too, you’re building credibility because, you know, and I, I’m a firm believer that anytime you can teach someone something, they don’t know you’re getting credit points and that can be for if you’re trying to make a sale, if you’re trying to hire somebody and I, in this case, you know, trying to hire people.
But I, I see there being zero downside to, as part of your hiring plan for marketers. Giving away kind of your playbook for what you’re doing right now, because the amount of credibility you’ll get from that. And now the discussions you’ll actually be able to start with people from that I think is just, I don’t know why he wouldn’t do it.
That’s a great point. And here’s the great thing too, is we talk, we talk a lot about different departments, creating content and sales. Whatever. And like a lot of those departments really struggle with distribution. They don’t know how to distribute content. We’re talking about marketers job is to distribute like, and they have the creative resources.
Yeah. That’s why it, it drives me crazy. So when we were talking about, in the last show, we talked about salespeople. The biggest opportunity in sales was, you know, Get your sales leaders talking about being coming knowledge, domain leaders. Why? Because salespeople around LinkedIn all damn day. Right? So everyone you want to hire is literally they’re ready to listen to you.
If you’re a sales leader and want to talk, marketing is slightly different, same concept. It’s not so much about being a vocal. But it’s not so much about just kind of talking and helping people, how you become a better at sales, and this is what we’re excited about, but it is more about showing people how it’s done and why, you know, why your organization does things a certain way, or just using the channels the same way you would for hiring that you would, for whatever your, whatever your service or whatever your product is, you know if you’re able to target people the same way with content or with whatever other kinds of methods you use, like they’re gonna notice.
Their marketers just thought. Yes. Totally. I love it when I leave you speechless. Okay.
I just fully agree. All right. So this one. Okay. So the next thing that was, are kind of the first three things comment. So we had, we’ve talked about CEO slash CMO leadership. We talked about marketing being an administrative function versus strategic business function. And the relationship with sales.
And they’re obviously three different things, but they’re kind of tightly intertwined in that. The next thing was overview of strategy that the org is currently using and what the marketing engine looks like now. So a current versus future state. And I think this also, you know, this covers, it encompasses a few different things.
So, you know, what’s your personnel look like currently? What channels are you looking doing currently? What are you looking to get into? Like, what’s the change that’s going to happen? You know what I mean? If you’re hiring for a position, you have to assume on some level. It’s either a replacement hire, which you need to talk about.
That’s another conversation entirely, or it’s a net new hire for some other thing you’re trying to do. So and I think it’s more, so a lot of times recruiters or people talk about this is a net new hire, but. What’s important is okay. why if it’s a net new hire, what’s the reason what’s the project what’s kind of driving that what’s that future state you’re trying to get towards.
That’s the things that people find interesting, not the fact that it’s a new position. Other comments that were kind of built into this. I’m just kind of going through the survey kind of results. Gaps within what other gaps are there. So every marketing organization has limited resources. It, once you make this hire, what are the next gaps you have?
Like, what are the opportunities, other opportunities there could be within the marketing plan for this person potentially to kind of fill in budgets. Do you have a budget? That’s always a big one. Do you have a budget? Is a budget growing. Do you have money to do any of the stuff you’re talking about?
That’s something people want to know. Organizational structure is this Marine team where the open position fits you. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, all those things Oh yeah. Okay. I did an example of like the future or, you know, the, the future state or the direction that you’re going in, like an example that I’m seeing a lot right now, which is like a pretty hot topic in SAS is Product lead versus sales lead and how there’s a lot of enterprise tech companies that have always been sales led that are now moving in a product led direction or trying to right.
It’s like it’s slowly starting to happen. And, and over like the next like five or 10 years is probably just going to become like standard practice that you have, like a product led motion some way, which is a that’s very marketing driven. And I think like something there. You know, like you’re going to see like a big, like probably a lot of hiring for those types of marketers who know how to like product marketers and know how to, how to put themselves into product led companies.
But like, that’s, that’s just like one example of like, here we are as a company today, this is the direction we’re going in. This is why we’re hiring those types of people. And here’s the exciting things that you will be part of building. Right. Yeah. That’s extremely compelling to, yeah. To a good marketer.
anyway, that just popped into my mind. Another thing that I was thinking about too is like, there’s no Swiss army knife marketers, but I think a lot of job descriptions are probably written like they are. Oh, that’s terrible. Yeah. I mean, that’s that’s so you could say this about every skillset, but marketing in particular, the amount of times that I’m used to seeing job descriptions written to include everything, like you said, and then when you do an intake call with a client or the company you find out, okay.
That it’s only, it’s actually very specifically defined. There’s actually something that’s important. Everything else is garbage, not garbage, but everything else is. Someone else’s purview and not that important. And, but to your point, getting down to that. Yeah. Well, I mean, that’s like a company who realizes that and knows how to leverage somebody’s expertise and plug them into either a system that is built to leverage those expertise.
Or if you’re coming in as like maybe marketing leader, one, Those are just like good things to know, like, Hey, I’m a really good demand marketer. I’m a really good brand marketer. And am I going to have the ability to build a team around me that is going to strengthen my weaknesses? You know, like that’s really important because like the no company should expect one person to be great at like all aspects of marketing.
It’s just like it’s too nuanced. Yeah. So that’s just like another talking point for both candidates and companies, I guess. But that, that’s just like also making me think that like there’s advantages to being early in, you know, maybe like after you’ve like cut your teeth at like a big company or you’ve, you’ve been part of a team and like, maybe you’ve, you’ve been under like a really smart leader.
Being early in has its advantages because you get to potentially do the things that I just talked about. So if you’re, if you’re a startup and you’re hiring marketing lead one or something like that, I mean, it’s important to like underscore those growth opportunities and the way you think about giving this person, like the ability to build around them and your mindset and stuff.
No I’m copping following. Yeah. I’m excited about this next one. Right? Because I thought it was pretty good. Only two people put this one down. But I actually think if this is something that’ll stand out company’s prospects for success. One person said, I always like to see the company’s pitch deck to investors usually get turned down, but sometimes I have to send an NDA to get it.
Another person said that investment thesis of the business, what are the business objectives? How much parking be expected to contribute with actual hard numbers and metrics? But also talk about where the resources, whatnot. I thought this was really cool because it also gets down to what the success look like.
And is it realistic? This is how you can really easily tell back to kind of initial things we talked about. Is, does the CDO even understand, like what, what good looks like here? Does he ever tell you to understand does your COO, is it a real CMO that actually has a plan they can kind of it’s achievable.
Are you setting yourself up for success for success? You know, if, if there’s equity involved in this organization, is that going to Mount anything someday or are they completely dreaming? Will it look good in your resume? Are you gonna be able to tell a success story out of this or are they jokers?
You know, so, but I do think that like, the success or failure of the marketing function is directly tied to, how it can impact the business. And it’s going to work out. There are marketers out there they’re based upon this, that, that want to know that kind of stuff. And if you have a story to tell, if you can talk about kind of what your, what the longterm goals are, the company prospects are and these types of things, like that’s something you definitely should talk about.
Because again, these are things, a lot of organizations don’t even touch. So yeah. That’s a gutsy move. I love it. Yeah. It’s great though. Again, I, especially like earlier stage companies. Oh man. Everybody thinks they’re going to go public. And everybody, like, I don’t know how many times I’ve been told that.
It’s just like, check that against the reality of like all companies that ever achieve that versus, and homage. Anybody cares about your market and. Like, I dunno, like looking inside, like the, the, the investor angle is really smart. It will show you a lot. Okay. Another one that’s kind of fundamental.
I’m surprised this one didn’t come up more, a deep dive on the customer and why they buy the product. You know, I mean, that’s really what it comes down. It’s not so much that we like like, are you, what’s your product and who’s buying it, but can you articulate. How this thing should be marketed. Can you articulate why anybody’s buying this thing and what the value is?
If you can’t. Yeah. Do you know, like in your, if you can’t do that and you’re trying to hire a marketer, you know and I just thought that’s a bit of a red flag, you know, and granted it’s the marketing person’s job to kind of figure some of that out, but, or figure out how to market it. But at the same time, too, like the basics of like, here’s why the products valuable and here’s, who’s going to buy it.
Like how good of a story can you tell there? It also kind of leads itself back to that last point about how realistic is all of this, you know, because it’s not just about the product and who we’re selling it to, but leadership’s ability to articulate that to you. And if they can’t do it, that’s a red flag, man.
I can count a number of times early on when I just did not know how to evaluate a product or a company or a founder. And man, I had shiny object syndrome and like I got, I learned a lot, but like, I mean, these kinds of questions, like get to the heart of it. I think like, Oh gosh, man, practicality matters so much.
Yeah. But if you can, so turning this back into, I mean, the content around this, I mean, if you can. If you can articulate at the top of the funnel when you’re trying to attract candidates, what your company actually, cause that’s the thing. I will say this a lot too. Like most of the job ads you look at look like most of the things you look like, they’re very, they are very position focused.
Here’s the role here. A description, most of them are lacking, but here’s what our company really does. Here’s the value we provide our clients. Here’s why people use us. And if you, if you can make that make sense to somebody, the details of the position don’t even matter as much. I think. You know, you get the less relevant part of the story.
One of the questions we ask in the content that we create is how does your company make money? It’s like a simple question. Yeah. That helps team members provide simple, straightforward answers. Well, we make money by, well, we have this thing and we sell it this way and people pay, you know, it’s like, it just breaks it down to the most like elementary level.
Yeah. Yeah, that kind of stuff is helpful. We’ve got a few more here. So there was some interesting hiring manager questions, and I think this kind of goes back to what we talked about. You know, in the last show talking about, I don’t know if we need to kind of rehash the entire thing again, but why your leaders should be vocal.
But there were some, there were a lot of people who had questions, like they wanna know what’s the department turnover over the last couple of years. What’s the manager’s tenure and background. What’s the relationships between departments, departments. How long does the manager or the hiring person see himself or herself with the company?
What’s their career path? Not just your own career path, but what are they trying to achieve or are they trying to go next? Someone else, this is questions. The way we phrase this question, you ask the interview process, asking the CMO or the head of marketing. Like, how do you feel valued in your job? So turning extrapolating, kind of turning that back around, you know, these are things that if you can get the COO the head of marketing for your organization to talk about why they love it, they’re what they’re excited about.
Whether they want to go next. Why they feel that and feel valued in a job. These are the things that will also resonate.
Not that I see very often, but I know telling you it’ll work. Those are the core things. The last one actually didn’t have as much to do with marketing, but I liked it anyway, and it kind of hits on the topic that we’ve been. We’ve actually been kicking around our content team. Some we want to talk about and Jeff Smith and I might be doing a show on this soon.
The company’s DEI initiatives and their impact back it up with data. So I thought there were two things interesting about this a year ago is when the world started, everyone was talking about DTI a year ago at this time. Okay. Biggest hottest topic companies were hiring heads of diversity, all these types of things.
I’m not seeing that same level of noise. Publicly at this point, what we’re interested in, I don’t have the answer for this, but I’m saying by the way, but this person was said, there’s something on the top of their mind. I know they’re not the only one where did all that go. Like which companies stuck with it stayed the course actually delivered on it.
It wasn’t just lip service, but they had a goal and they’re still working towards it and can show numbers around that versus which companies that was the shiny object last year, we felt like we had to do because everyone else is doing. And we moved on six months ago. It’s definitely a priority anymore.
Because that’s important, not just from a diversity perspective, which is the core questions, person asking, but the, are you bullshit or not perspective? You know, like I’m not going to fall at anyone for how much time or effort they did or didn’t put into a year ago, but kudos to those who stuck with it and a big WTF to everyone who talked to the game, but then never followed through
I think you do this too, but like, I just think in posts all the time. So I’m like thinking of like a lead into like a killer post from somebody which a year ago everybody was talking about this. But but any companies dropped it. Here’s what we’re doing, but it’s yeah, it’s, it’s not even, but it’s, it is about it is about DTI.
Cause that’s what this person said. They’re going to be, they’re basing part of their decision, but it’s also work. Conversation has been about strategic thinking and follow-through because that’s really what marketing, that’s why, if you’re a marketer, you want to go to a place that can actually like have a vision and it’s a real vision and they follow through on it.
They have a marketing plan. They stick to it. There’s actually this growth opportunity. It’s not just lip service, which it is in a lot of organizations when it turns out to be sales support. But here’s a prime example because I believe that companies, when they make decisions and they do it all in the same manner, you know, they either, there’s just places that have follow-through or there’s places that, you know, cause.
Whether it’s DEI or whether it’s just like some new thing in marketing that you gave up on, you’re going to give up on that six months later, once it starts to get tough or once the interest in it wanes or something like that. And I think that’s important to know too. And I think that will, if you can tell stories about how your, how your kind of company sticks the course with whether it’s DEI or something else, that’s also something that people will give, be attracted to versus places that, you know, just lose interest and stuff.
So, yeah. Do you want me to do a quick, I have some, those are the last things I, I can run through those things again at the end here, but okay. okay. Let me see patterns and themes that I saw transparent comp up front. Look inside leadership mindset team structure. And how do members of the team think about the work that they’re doing?
Clear expectations. AKA does this company even know what they want out of marketing? Does, does the CEO slash leadership value marketing? If, so why is there the ability to have creative runway or am I just an order taker and do I have an opportunity to succeed with, or even what I, I think opportunity to succeed with or without product market fit, depending on the stage of the company.
I think that really is more about like going back to one previous questions about like CEO and leadership valuing the function and sending you up for success. Yeah. That’s what I saw. That was a perfect summary. I’m glad you did that. Cause that was what I was going to revert back to. So cool. Teamwork makes the dream work.
There you go. Let’s see here. Let’s let’s end. Let’s each name? One or a couple marketers who we like to follow. Sure. Cassidy shield, narrative science. Oh, Cassie blossom. You should definitely follow him. Okay. Chris Walker, we’d mentioned them all the time. He’s I think. Chris’s stuff is awesome. There’s somebody new I’ve been following Andrew Kaplan.
CAAP L a N D. He was in-house for quite a while. He just moved. I think he just moved independent. He posts some really great stuff tactical. Okay. Yeah. What’s the name again? Andrew Capland Andrew Caplin will come up. Yeah, look them up. Andrew Caplin, Cassidy shield. Chris Walker, all those three.
Okay. Oh, MJ is good, right? Yeah. Now that she’s in refined, you know, they’re all good. They, their whole, their whole staff’s good. Right. So they really are. Yeah. And Jay Peters all right, man. Cool. All right. That is a wrap for the employer content show. If you want to hear more of what Nick and I have to say, you can subscribe to the higher world channel on YouTube, where we have a playlist of all of our episodes and the talent insights podcast, which is available on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Amazon and Spotify.
Nate. Thanks again, everyone else. I’ll see you soon.

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