October 11, 2022

Performance Based Roles


Episode Highlights

Overview of Performance Roles


Helping Employees as a Manager


Exceeding Targets/Overachieving Employees


Other Options Out There for Unhappy Employees


Fantasy Football Segment


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In their flagship episode, Dan and Louie kick off by relating the world of sports to recruitment through Louie’s wheelhouse: Performance-based sales roles. They discuss the concept and where it is seen in both the corporate and sports worlds, how to deal with underperforming employees or companies not meeting their end of the agreement, and identifying when it is time to move on to someone or something new.

Episode Transcript

Good afternoon everybody. Thanks for joining us for the first edition of The Hirewell Hot Corner, presented by Hirewell of course. I am your host, Dan Spittel, along with my co-host Louis Morici. Louis, how’s it going? It’s going. It’s been a long week of golf and football and ready to jump into this.

Absolutely. It’s going to be a pleasure working with you on this. Before we dive in, just a little background about what we’re hoping to do here. With this being on LinkedIn, I’m sure everyone watching his already knows of James Hornick, he’s quite popular on the app. He kind of encouraged us to dive a little more into the content side,

push things that you’re passionate about and find a way to tie it into what you do. And so Louis and I said, “We really like sports. Let’s find a way to talk about it and get it out there to more people.” So excited to do this. Let’s dive right in. Big thing in sports world is college football

right now. We’re back in the full swing of things. We won’t talk too much about Notre Dame and that’s okay. We’ll pass on them. Louis, what are the big storylines you’re seeing out of the college football scene so far this year? As usual, we’re seeing the top teams do the same thing.

Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, kind of take care of business, work out the kinks the first couple games. But another thing is we’re only a couple weeks into the season, we’re actually seeing some coaches be excused, get fired. So that’s what we’re going to kind of do today. And to introduce our first topic, it’s really about performance based roles.

When is it time to maybe let someone go? How do you measure, “Should we let them go or maybe we keep them?” We’ll look at it from recruiting standpoint, a managerial standpoint. And you know, where this started from is the firing of Scott Frost in Nebraska. And then as of recent, Herm Edwards got fired from Arizona State University.

Some say it happened in the end zone. I don’t recommend that from a hiring- from a coaching standpoint, but. So that’s where we’re going to start with this today. I mean, I work in the sales practice here at Hirewell. So little bit more familiar with the sales side of things. What team are you a part of Dan?

I am on our OnDemand recruitment team. And so in LinkedIn I’ve actually made a video about what that means. It’s kind of a new term for a lot of people, but essentially I join companies on a short term basis, help them grow their practice from a recruitment standpoint, make some key hires, help them set the groundwork for a better future as they continue to grow their company.

Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, that definitely needed some excellent explanation. Yeah. Me, I work with clients that are looking for sales talent. Being a former salesman myself and a sales recruiter for a couple years, this topic kind of hits more probably on my side than it does yours but we’ve seen it happen in both of our industries,

people getting let go. So Scott Frost, Herm Edwards, both are a part of relatively known schools. Nebraska powerhouse in the Big 10, and then Arizona State, known for a party school. Not as much about the football, but either way, both were let go due to tough starts. Now a few weeks back after week one when Nebraska lost to Northwestern, Scott Frost was in his interview or in his postgame conference talking about-

it’s a performance based industry. These schools don’t have time to have mediocrity. So that’s kind of what we wanted to stem into is if you have an employee that you know is in a metrics based role and they’re not hitting those metrics, what’s the plan of attack?

Do we just let them go? Is there some way to retain them either in another position or how to motivate them to do better? So that’s kind of where I come in with managers that I’ve worked with in a sales capacity. I’ve had managers that I’ve learned from their kind of best practices and the one thing that they’re going to look at is metrics.

Now in a sales atmosphere that’s calls, emails, appointment set, demos run, everything of that nature. Now, if those are pretty set in stone as this employee is supposed to do this amount per month and they’re not doing that, specifically the calls and the emails, then that’s pretty much they’re not putting in the effort.

Now, there could be some backend issues with that. Are they not given enough leads? Are they not internally supported? Those things need to be factored in, but when it comes to keeping that person, that is what in the sales world, they will look at first. Are they doing what we’re asking them to?

Or if they are doing that, maybe there’s a messaging issue. Maybe there’s a skill issue, things that they can help teach. So that’s kind of the overview of what things we need to consider. I mean, Dan, what are some of the aspects in your realm of things on OnDemand recruiting that you can kind of chime in with?

Sure. So we definitely don’t handle nearly as many metric specific roles, commission type opportunities, ones that are really hammering down. But I’m currently working with a consulting firm. And so that all dives into the side of billable hours, utilization numbers, the same applies. They need to be hitting their metrics on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis from a financial standpoint, from a company standpoint and from a client retention standpoint.

And so, in your experience working with not just candidates but sales managers, how are they coaching? How are they helping these candidates? What can they do on their end to help them be better and retain some good talent? Yeah, there’s a few ways. If they feel that this person

hasn’t done enough to just play themselves right out the door, they have what is called a PIP. And a PIP is a performance improvement plan. It kind of lays the cards on the table. It’s like, this is what we need from you in order to retain you. So if you’re on a PIP, you know that things are pretty serious.

There’s those conversations being had on the back end. So from a candidate or an employee standpoint, it’s time to grind out, calls, emails, going above what they ask. Granted, I don’t think you ever need to get to that point. I think it’s pretty, you know, do the job that you’re expected and you should be in a good spot.

But for those that maybe do slack here and there and get put on a PIP, it’s time to almost over kill, over call, over email, and try and generate some new opportunities. From a management standpoint, if you have an employee that needs a little kick in the ass, quite frankly, you look at some of the things that they do on a daily basis.

Are they calling at specific hours? Are they touch pointing, specific industries, just a lot of the details of their day. And maybe kind of direct them in a different approach. “Hey, you’re making calls eight to nine, while we’re noticing that most of the folks in this industry aren’t at their desk or are usually getting their coffee at this time, so you’re missing ’em.

Let’s try reworking that process to calling them, from 10 to 11.” There’s those coaching aspects that come in that can really make all the difference. And the best thing for a manager is seeing someone who has the work ethic and you can kind of help refine their skills.

The opposite being said, where if you don’t have the work ethic, it’s almost like- not going to say a waste of time, but you’re not getting what you’re giving from a return aspect. But on the flip side there, employees should make it pretty well known one way or the other

are they worth retaining or are they worth unfortunately, letting go. Absolutely. A lot of it does come down to the metrics in the financial side of it. Looping Scott Frost back in, the University of Nebraska is going to be paying out a $16.4 million buyout for firing him as early in the season as they did.

Had they waited three more weeks, it would’ve been cut in half. At what point does that really become the factor in whether or not you pull the plug at that time? It’s funny. I mean, I will say not many of the folks that I’ve placed are dealing with that sort of buyout clause or any sort of buyout clause for that matter.

But it goes to show you the metrics behind it. Like they are willing to technically lose out on eight and a half, 16 and a half million dollars just to get someone in there they think that could win. And overall the wins are what build the company. It grows the company’s bottom line. In football,

it gets you to bowl games, gets you more TV rights. It’s kind of hand in hand go together, which I think is exactly why we want to do this show because there is a lot of those crossover scenarios. For sure. Let’s flip the script a little bit. We’re talking about candidates who aren’t performing up to their manager’s expectations, aren’t hitting those metrics.

I imagine more on your side, you tend to see the opposite, where you’re getting employees who are knocking it outta the park. They’re killing their numbers. Have you seen any opportunities or any examples of maybe companies who aren’t meeting their end of the bargain? Should a sales employee or someone on a performance based role really just absolutely crush it.

It’s unfortunate, but yes, it does happen. Someone is doing so well and driving in X amount of dollars and they’re told that they’re uncapped, but then they’re making much more money than anyone expected and then they get capped. Or unfortunate again, sometimes companies withhold some of that and just say, “Sorry, we don’t know where it went” or, you know. So there’s unfortunate shady incidences, if you will, that happen in those scenarios.

And I’ve spoken with a few great candidates that are confident, are very, very good salespeople. And the reason they’re even talking to me is because of these types of scenarios. It’s one of those things- companies should constantly be able to incentivize even their top performers. And one of the things with Hirewell, I think that’s what they do top notch is, the more revenue you’re driving in, the more commission you make because everyone wins.

The clients win, the company wins. You win. It’s designed perfectly. Not everyone is as perfect as Hirewell. It is what it is. It is. Absolutely. It’s one of those. You have to be prepared, especially if someone’s killing it. They’re representing your company in the best way possible and people want to work with you.

So that’s a tough one. That is a very tough scenario. And yeah. Well, I guess I’m here to help anyone that is in that scenario. Sure. And so people are reaching out to you, this has happened before. In the sports world, Lamar Jackson right now is holding out for a better contract. He’s been performing at least so far this season, very strongly and exceeding those numbers that he was offered

because he wants the guarantee. Employees don’t necessarily have the ability to hold out for a better deal with their company. What options do these people have right now? I’m big on loyalty to companies. Now, if you don’t feel companies being loyal back, and again, we’ve seen this happen in sports. Guys leave, even though they’ve loved being where they’re at. But the franchise brass don’t shell out the money.

You know that- it’s unfortunate, but it’s business. That’s what it comes down to is, can you do better business elsewhere? Are you going to be given more money for your time? And whether that’s in sports, recruiting, sales, finance, really, whatever, that’s what it comes down to. You and I both can agree if someone throws a million dollar salary at us, that’s something we would consider

even though we love Hirewell. It’s one of those things that it may be too good to pass up. But on the flip side, a little bit more money somewhere else or staying put and really loving where you’re at, it’s just options that you need to weigh on an individual basis. But from a candidate standpoint, if you’re in that scenario, I’d say start just testing the waters.

You don’t need to jump out the window anytime soon. It’s just see what else is out there and do your due diligence because you’re in a spot where you’re making good money, you most likely like the company. And if they can’t grow with you, well then that’s time to maybe explore your options. For sure.

The ultimate performance based type of environment right now is fantasy football. So let’s touch on that real quick. How are your fantasy teams doing? Awful. I think I’ve won- I’m in three leagues and of the three leagues I’ve won one game thus far. So, Oh, I went 4-0 this weekend. It was a good feeling.

Not a big deal. Due in part largely to- I don’t know if have to pull this up. I’m on Ross Saint Brown. Shout out to my boss Jeff Smith, huge Lions fan. It’s a good time to be on that band wagon. For your standpoint, you’ve won one- one win in the last two weeks to start. From starting your roster, the lineup, setting it every week,

when’s the time to pull the plug on some of those big guys who haven’t been performing yet? It’s funny you should mention that. One of the biggest names, especially now and for the last forever, is Tom Brady. I have him as two- the starting quarterback on two of my teams. And he’s been either under or right around like the 20 points a week.

And that’s not cutting it when I have Carson Wes playing for the Washington commanders, putting up 35 plus in the first two weeks. Like at what point do we pull the plug? It may happen in week three. Now on the flip side, in a candidate’s field, I think it’s best to give them a heads up. Granted, I can’t call Tom Brady and be like, “Hey, you need to play better

or you’re going to be sat” but. Yeah, that’d be great. But from a candidate standpoint, it’s working with them because the worst thing is having turnover. It’s having to reinvest time into training other employees. So I’m a avid supporter of retention and working with folks. There’s going to be those folks that

really just don’t want to be there. Don’t put in the effort that is needed. And yes, letting those folks go is fine, but the folks that put the effort in that just need maybe a little refining to their approach, by all means. Like those are the folks that you want to put the time in, leave in the game, and hopefully they start to turn things around.

Excellent. Any final thoughts? Go Bears. I mean one in one is better than we thought. I’m a Chicago Bears fan. It’s not pretty. The Packers and Aaron Rodgers, yes, he does own us. It sucks, but it is what it is. Just hoping we can salvage some stuff this season and it’s tough saying that after week two. As a Steelers fan with Mitchell Trubisky as our QB one right now,

I get it. He’s your problem now. Thank you for that. So Louis, pleasure as always. Looking forward to doing this many more times. For everyone watching, thank you so much for your time. We’re looking forward to bringing you a lot more sports and recruiting content in the future. Have a great rest of your day. Thanks everyone.

On behalf of Louis and myself, thank you for tuning into the Hirewell Hot corner. Join us again in two weeks for our next show on Managed recruiting and the needs of a company versus the needs of an organization in sports. And as always, stay classy LinkedIn.

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