March 24, 2021

Job Hunt Like a Salesperson


Episode Highlights

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Careerwell & Hirewell’s Talent Insights series presents “Adventures in Job Seeking, Part 2” with special guest Alexine Mudawar.

We often talk about how job seekers need to approach their job search like a sales process. But for non-sales types…what does that actually look like?

Careerwell Cofounder James Hornick talked with Alexine Mudawar, who is an accomplished B2B SaaS sales professional who recently landed a new gig at Displayr. Alexine breaks down how she drove her search using modified sales techniques – company research, referral gathering, tailored elevator pitches, scorecarding, prep cheat sheet, and creative & meaningful follow up.

There are lots of actionable takeaways for job seekers looking for better structure and methods.

Episode Transcript

Welcome to the talent insights podcast brought to you by Hirewell and Careewell, I’m your host, James. Hornick. today’s show will be part of our adventures in job seeking series, where we talk with people who’ve been successful, doing some interesting things in their job search, really with the attention of giving job seeker, a lot of actionable takeaways.

today’s guest is an accomplished B2B sales professional, who recently landed a new gig at displayer. Everyone. Please welcome Alexa, Muduwar. 


Okay.  cool. So  this is the second one of these I’ve done. So it’s just always how I like to start. These sounds kind of silly, but this is how I always will start these.

This is like one of my favorite things to do because I’m talking with job seekers who have just knocked it out of the park, doing interesting things in their job search. You always you’ve learned a lot and you frankly have a lot to share with people. but the thing I always impress upon everyone is the first thing you have to do is you have to have your job seeker, elevator pitch.

How do you talk with companies when you’re first introducing yourself? And I think it’s also a great way to kind of introduce yourself to everyone today. So take yourself back a month or two before you had the job you have now, how are you introducing yourself to, to everyone you talked to.

Yeah. So it’s a really good point because that was kind of the first phase in the job process. I hadn’t really put together an elevator pitch in several years for myself. So that was kind of phase one, but essentially mine is, , hi, my name is Alex Dean Maguire. I have seven plus years of enterprise SAS sales experience.

I’ve worked with a range of different startups, all in high growth mode and I’ve had numerous president’s club award winnings and high achiever recognitions. and I’m looking for my next role. That’s really focused on outbound hunting sales, so pretty concise. but I kind of like tailored it, not only so that like verbally, I can convey it to people, but also in writing too.

So when I would do cold messaging, I mean, it’s the same pitch and writing, but it’s like Chris, but it’s concise then it’s just saying, you know, clearly I want to do outbound sales. Like here, this is what I’m here for. 


And it accomplishes exactly that cause like there’s a lot of people I’ve talked to who,  either I ask them or they tell me that someone asked them like, Hey, tell me about yourself. And they have to think about it, you know, and like right off the bat, you’re kind of behind the eight ball.

So it’s great. Having kind of a concise thing in your mind like that.  Specifically, what was really interesting about your research? And we got  connected because you posted something on LinkedIn, which was just great talking about your search. 

And I’m always telling people, they need to think about their job search, like a sales person, because a job search is the same thing as a sales process in a sales funnel.

But I always get,  two things. I get salespeople who. They’re like, Oh, that makes a lot of sense. But wait, how do I, I’ve never sold myself before, so they haven’t learned how reposition it yet, or I get more often. I get people who aren’t in sales and they’re like, that sounds great. I have no idea what that means or how I do it.

So it’s, it’s good. So it was kind of a learning process, but  why don’t you walk everyone through it? exactly. what was your process? How did you break things down? What made you successful and ultimately, how did you land the job at displayer.

Yeah. So, I’ll preface by saying to your point, I had a very sales based approach like I do with anything. I mean, if I make like a furniture purchase it’s sales Bay, like everything I do is very sales. Focused. but essentially for this surge, I started out by first and foremost, getting that elevator pitch for myself down.

So before I even started doing outreach,  what is kind of my pitch, both in writing verbally, how am I going to convey that? I also did a big revamp of my LinkedIn. So I spent probably a few weeks going through making sure everything was updated in there, making sure that everything was more consolidated, a little bit more focused on metrics.

Like instead of saying like I was XYZ percent of quota, like really tightening some of that up.  and then from there, what I did was actually put together my target list and I mean, this was a massive list when I first started, So I had probably 50 companies and what I did was source them from like builtin Chicago or other lists where they were all like high growth tech companies.

So I kind of had a niche that I knew I was going after, because it’s worked for me for the last, you know, seven plus years. so I had that list and then what I did from there is take that entire list and start to input. I, I cross reference with LinkedIn to see who I’m usually connected with, whether it was other sales reps.

Sales leadership. I also look for group parallel, so some people were part of sales assemblies, so that could be like an easy foot in the door. so I went through and kind of cross reference, see who I know at each of those organizations. And then that was all before I even started outreach. So then once I kinda got through that process, what I did was then.

Kind of go through and message the low hanging fruit it was what I would call it. Basically people I knew I could get meetings with based on connections I’ve had over the years. So that was kind of phase one is who can I tackle? And part of this too, by the way, not all of these, how to open job requisition.

So I did do some outreach to companies that I knew weren’t hiring. And I would actually put that in the message like, Hey, I wanted to connect with you. I’m beginning to explore new sales opportunities. I understand you don’t have a job rec open today, but I just wanted to connect with you and it’d be instead the view probably opening one in the next couple of months.

So basically kind of hit the low hanging fruit. And then I got into more of the strategic, you know, having to actually kind of craft messaging, casting the wider net. So looking at not only. I’m trying to go after like a VP of sales or a chief revenue officer. I also started to look into like board members.

So I got a few meetings from board members actually, where I like reached out to them and, gave them my elevator pitch and then basically said, can you connect me to your sales leadership team and what that does, even though I hadn’t met those board members, the fact that their name is now tied to me.

Was such an easy foot in the door. I mean, within 24 hours, I have like every once in a sales leadership team in my inbox, so really incredible things there. And then I think from there just keeping, you know, really diligent notes. Like I basically had my own CRM system going through this. so essentially I’m,  keeping that target list updated every time I’m sending an email every time and going through a first round interview and then like changing everything up.

And then once we get deeper into, you know, once I started actually meeting with companies and getting further down the line, then I got more into creating, interview cheat sheets and getting a little bit more strategic about actual interviewing tactics, which I’m sure we’ll go into. But I think the process overall, even if you don’t work in sales, that’s a very sales driven mindset.

Like you’re basically taking a total audience, figuring out the easiest ways in the door and then funneling it down until you can kind of. Get yourself a connection point that works and keep in mind too. A lot of these companies offer referral bonuses for,  their, employees. So one of the easiest things too is just even as a sales rep, I can email someone on their marketing team and say like, Hey, I’m looking at sales roles.

Like, would you mind me your referrals for me? I know a lot of companies have a bonus structure, really good responses that way too. So I think it’s just really trying to leverage people at this point, because as you know, That you kind of have that black hole wall where all those applications are going right now.

Unfortunately. So I think,  the best way in is through people.

Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I love the fact, your hot list, I believe. Is that what we talked about this before? 

Yeah, my hot list. 

That’s your target list, right? 

Yeah. And that’s what I do for sales too. I make a hot list is exact same thing.

Yeah. And it’s so crucial because I think the number one thing that most job seekers do wrong, why they struggle is because most people are just programmed that I’m just going to go to, indeed, I’m gonna apply the jobs that are out there, but a million people are applying to those jobs.


Like you have to take some sort of proactive approach like this, where you’re finding ways to kind of network in. And as you said, too, it’s a lot of times it’s companies that don’t have anything posted, just because there’s nothing posted. Doesn’t mean they’re not hiring. And also, even if there’s not, maybe they are hiring now or maybe they’re going to hire in three, four months.

Like you just don’t know what the timeframe is, but I think that’s an important step one.


So how big was your lead mentioned? 50. Yeah. 

Yeah. Like 50 companies at the beginning. And mind you,  some of those dropped off the list almost immediately somewhere in a hiring freeze. So I kind of have like a long list and then at the end was like a hiring freeze bucket where I kind of kept those. And I would still do touch points with some of those companies and just check in.

So some of these companies,  I started conversations with maybe in March, so. Way way back, because I knew they weren’t hiring yet, but then,  the job that I ended up getting that was like a three week process. So  you kind of have to stack your deck in different ways. So you start having some strategic conversations further out, but it was a total mix, but yeah, about 50 companies initially.

So it was pretty heavy.

Yeah. And that’s, I think too it’s a weird market right now, you know? And I think you have to, like, I wish everyone could get a job in two weeks, but it’s not going to be realistic. Right. 


So you have to always be hedging that if someone gets back and says, Hey, we’re not hiring now, but we’re going to be looking at it in the next few months.

Don’t sleep on that because you know what I mean? It may take that long and those situations are actually sometimes the best, just because  when they finally things come back around you’re top of mind, you’re kind of a known commodity to that person.

So if you continue to follow up, like, it definitely speaks well  you’ll have a better relationship than other people who joined the process later, I guess is my point. So.

Yeah. A hundred percent.

That’s one thing I, I don’t think I really thought of before is leveraging the fact that companies have employee referral bonuses. So employees are going to be motivated to introduce you. I’m just curious, did you end up like talking, like meeting those people kind of like meeting via zoom, but like face to face or what’s that walk us through that?

I guess like how, how easy or time consuming that is?

So asking for referrals from someone that’s not involved in your interview process whatsoever, it should be like, I mean, that’s where I would really, especially if I didn’t have a strong network bill, I mean, I would just blast out some messages and see if I can get something to stick there because those, I mean, Pretty much.

I didn’t do like meetings for those. Like I did very few of those. Cause I usually had someone that I could kind of go through. But when I do those, I mean, I basically just own it and say, you know, I know a lot of companies offer this bonus incentive structure,  would you be willing to throw my name to the ring?

And by the way, here, it’s like a paragraph on me and what I’m about because, you know, realistically, we like to think that everybody wants to learn about us, but those people are busy too. So they might not have time, but just bear in mind, like I do this for. I’m friends all the time now that are looking for roles, all of a sudden introductions for them too.

Even if I’m not close to the person, like if I just have a mutual connection, even if it’s not someone I’m close to, I’ll just send a note and say like the exact same thing. Like, I’m not sure if you offer some kind of incentive program at your company, but if so, I wanted to send you this candidate so you could funnel them into your process and super quick.

Got it and you’re targeting someone who’s not likely in the exact interview process, so maybe someone marketing or something in it and they slightly different group or,

Yeah, potentially or sales reps,  we love a commission and we love money. So I think that’s always an easy way just to go through like a rapper, an STR, and just have them kind of throw your name in. But for me personally, with my search and also because it was more sales focus, I really worked more of those higher level points of contact when I was starting out.

So March April was exclusively meetings with like chief revenue officers, VPs of sales, directors of sales. I mean, there was one company I interviewed with where I met their CRO director, manager and like another manager before I even talked to their recruiter. So it was like the weirdest interview process 


Because the recruiter was like, alright, now we’re going to introduce you to this.

I was like, Oh cool. I met them. And then like every step I had already met everyone. So it was kind of funny, but,

That’s perfect.

But that’s super powerful. Yeah. So it’s like that call with the recruiter. Isn’t even like a venting session. It’s just like a hello. Nice to meet you. And here’s the rest of the process. 

Love it. 

So yeah, 

So let’s skip forward a little bit. one thing you and I talked about your interview cheat sheet, really cool.  Everyone knows you need to prep for interviews, but I think that it’s an area. People know that, but they still could do better at it.

So I’m just kinda curious how you prep for interviews, what you put together. I guess just kind of walk everyone through that.

Yeah, definitely. So interview preparation, like it’s funny. I fall into the bucket where I end up over-preparing and I try to like memorize everything and then I confuse myself. So during this search, I was like, I’m not going to do that because I end up fumbling over my words because I’m trying to like, remember to me things and.

A lot of times, these firsts, especially first round interviews, they’re not like expecting you to come in as a product experts. You’re memorizing kind of details you don’t need. So what I created was this interview cheat sheet for myself, really just to keep me on track. but essentially the top third.

His background on the interviewer. So it’s a three part document. Top third is background on the interviewer. So that could be the recruiter. Like I did the exact same thing regardless who I was talking to. And it’s essentially their bio, like where they went to school. If I see that we have any groups in common, like anything I can find on LinkedIn, if there’s someone they interact with that I know really well, like I can bring that up from their activity history.

How long they’ve been with the organization. So that’s section one and that’s , regardless if whoever I’m talking to you I’d do that. And then section two is the company kind of outline. So rather than me trying to memorize everything, what I did is try to summarize and two lines, maybe what that company does in a way that’s digestible and natural for me to regurgitate back to someone.

So it’s not me trying to say, like, I know that complexity is your system and this and that, you know, I’m just like, here’s two sentences about this company. And then usually I’ll highlight in there like a couple of key competitors, which is super easy to find on LinkedIn. You just look at companies that are similar to this, and then you can just see on down the side and just jot free down.

So that’s kind of the mid section is about the company. And then the final section is questions that are specific to the interviewer. So. If you’re talking to HR, for instance, then that’s more about like culture and a little bit, I wouldn’t say fluffier, but like definitely more focused on,  the organization and how they collaborate.

Maybe I’m asking questions about their employee resource groups. So that’s kind of that if I’m talking to a sales manager, I’m talking about like, KPIs, what are you tracking on a daily basis? what does a day in the life look like for your top rep? And then when we get over to like the chief revenue officer, for instance, then I’m talking more about fish and like, what do you think the sales team is going to look like six months from today?

What do you need to do today to kind of get you there? So starting to think more like vision-based and then CEOs are like very similar to. I’m CEO of cofounders. I think you’re really focusing on overall vision for the company. So not as much like sales focus, so which is hard as salespeople, we like to focus on us, but you know, like how do you envision the other areas of the organization collaborating and, thinking more collaboration and vision wise.

So, all of those sections together and were really helpful for me to just stay focused in these conversations and not get like. Too is the weeds on anything? It just kept really focused. And then I made sure for the questions too, to switch them every single time. So if it was like, then I’m asking you very certain, very specific questions and it wasn’t like.

Do you like working at this company? You know,  it was questions that are a little bit deeper diving and then I switched those for every person I interviewed with. And then one of the other things too, which this sounds like obvious, but I put them all in the same area of a notebook, whatever company name is, I would have say like four pages in this notebook.

And what helped was when I was in interviews, I could then kind of like, keep the act like a page or two and say like, I know that, you know, Julia mentioned that X, Y, Z, he was really important to that team. Do you feel like that’s like one of that figure areas that you’re working on as well, but it creates this really nice linear path of all your conversations.

Yeah. Yeah. Are you taking down notes as it’s happening or afterwards you sum it up?

Yeah. And I think that I’m sneaky, but I’m not. So I always like 

try to talk them down. So I do this thing where I like try to jot them down while I’m like not breaking eye contact. And what ends up happening is that like, looks like a jumbled mess later. so near the end, I started to just say like, Hey, I’m going to be taking notes.

So if you see me peek down, don’t think I’m texting or something. Like I’m taking notes here and they’re like, okay, cool.

Yeah, that’s cool. what I like too is when I think about, so it’s, personal profile summary of the person you’re talking to company summary, and then questions you’re gonna ask. it’s key because those are three very important areas that  it’s easy to blank. Like you’ve got so much other stress going on in the interview.

Cause you’re trying to like answer people’s questions. Those are the three areas you can kind of control that, you know, things, you know, they’re coming things, you know, you should know. So just having that out of the way, that way your mind is freed up to kind of focus more on the task at hand, which is the unknown part of what they’re going to ask you.

So I think it’s great having a kind of summed up like that.

Yeah, definitely. And I think like this was the first time, and I don’t know if this is like new or if this is a new tactic, but, I noticed that a lot of the companies I talked to you started with my questions first or did I have any experience in interviews before?

So it kind of throws you for a loop because you’re expecting to have a conversation and then come away with questions. So that’s even more of a reason to have some written down because I had three or four where they were like, okay,  here’s kind of the framework of today’s conversation before I even get started.

Why don’t you tell me what questions you have specifically? And like, if you are just like, I can’t think of anyone,

Yeah. Dead in the water. 

You know, it’s not a good start. It’s the worst. 

Yeah. That’s a good point too. Cause I think a lot of times, like when I’m just talking with people in general, I think of questions as the conversation goes on, 


But you know, if you’re not prepared from the start to have stuff, you’d be dead in the water.

So it’s great. 

Another thing you did that I know was, is a bit different is your take on thank you notes. And that I had not heard of anyone doing this before,

So why don’t you kind of tell everyone how you went about kind of the followup and thank you process.

Yeah. So I will give credit to my friend Morgan Ingram, who is like the guru of video. so he does a ton of video content prospecting. And so I have had it on my list kind of to start playing with video more. And so when I started this job search, I was like, alright, I’m walking into. a different environment, like the tables have turned a little bit.

The companies have the advantage. It wasn’t that way last year. So now I have to figure out how to differentiate myself even more. And so for me, I was like, what if I take those, thank you notes and just turn them into videos. And the beauty of it is, is that not very many people are doing videos.

So even if your video is honestly mediocre, it’s still a level of, of, written content or not saying sending a thank you, which is obviously the worst.  but it’s just a cool creative way. So honestly, my whole video is just like,  hi James, thanks for taking the time today. I really enjoyed talking with you.

Here’s three of the key things we talked about today that really stuck with me. I’m super excited about this opportunity. I’m really looking forward to moving forward in the process, you know, into video. Like it’s very cut and dry and I’ll be honest. Like they weren’t professionally. Edited or like beautiful.

Most of them, I shot on my phone. but people love them. Like a lot of the sales leaders, especially like chief revenue officers. I got multiple notes back where they were like, Oh, that was super creative. I really liked that.  thank you. So it’s a cool tactic.

What I love about it is that like videos, I mean, we’re making video right now. So it’s an area where people were kind of experimenting with. I go, went back and forth on people would sometimes would hit me up with a cold sales call video. You know what I mean? I’m just like, I don’t know if I like this or not.

Like, it’s, I guess it’s kind of cool, but this, I love because this is with someone you’ve already talked to, you know what I mean? 


There’s our net warm relationship there. and I honestly, I don’t know, I haven’t heard of anyone else doing it. So I’m sure you mentioned you learned it from Oregon and I’m sure there’s other people out there doing it, but not many, you know, so it definitely sets yourself apart.

So that’s cool.

And even like a voice message would be cool to like, yeah. Do you ever get those on LinkedIn where people just said, like I noticed some people they’ll send me a note and then I respond in writing and then I’ll get into those audio clips. And it’s just them responding to my message, but they’re like, Oh, I was driving or whatever.

So I wanted to send it to you this way. I think even that would be a step up from just, sending a written note too. So like another cool tactic. But I think, especially if you’re in sales, like it shows kind of. Especially if you’re like me where you’re going into a hunting environment, to where you like really are focused on outbound sales, people will want to see that  you can be aggressive and kind of get out there. 

Yeah. And this is the kind of thinking that, you know, executives and sales want to see, you know, they want to see the people that are kind of able to think outside the box and do something different. And so I think, I think those are, those are great ideas.


So tools, how do you track everything?

So I know tracking was a big part of it. The list creation, then kind of where things on what’d you use, I guess.

Right. I’m not proud of this because I think it could have been done differently. But I use the note section in my phone, which I grew to regret like a month into this. I should have probably used Excel honestly, cause you know, I’m not gonna have like Salesforce access. So this note in my phone, by the end of this, as you can imagine, was like 40 pages long.


So the easiest way for me to sort it was to create like buckets of where conversely, like waiting to be scheduled second rounds, final rounds of waiting offer, and kind of sorted that way and group it out. But it wasn’t automated by any means. So it was a lot of like copy pasting and going back in, and there were some repeat entries.

But basically I tried to like with each company log, like who I’d reached out to you when I sent my note who else I knew at the company in case that person never responded, you know, just so I could kind of that as well. But it, it kept me on track and kept everything in the same place. And then for the actual interviewing.

And so it had like those notebooks. And so I went through, I believe through two notebooks actually, during this past interview process, But that was helpful too, to keep them like sectioned off by companies. So then I can reference different things and be able to go back to them easily. So I probably would have used Excel though, in retrospect.

Got it. Okay. so it sounds like that was one thing I was gonna say like, what’d you learn? Like what new things what’d you learn? if you could go back and do things differently, what would you change? I guess, improve upon next time.

I think, I almost would’ve started. It’s just it’s it keeps changing like this environment that we’re in. I guess I almost would’ve started like a month or two earlier and started having even more of those broad conversations, because even though I do think I started like a few months in advance of my search.

It’s just such a weird environment right now. There’s so much going on. And then you have these mass layoffs of company, like LinkedIn, where you have, I mean, that’s like quality sales, talent. That’s going to be coming out of there. so it’s just kind of clustering the market every time those folks kind of drop in.

So I think I almost would have started sooner. I feel like I’ve done a decent job of this other, the past few years, but I really would have focused heavily on my network and LinkedIn, and really gotten that like super tightened up before I even kind of, because I still made some changes, like during the search and added sections and deleted sections.

So I feel like that I wish I would have just, done even sooner too. So I would say if any of these, like, thinking about that, like get on it now and like get that kind of underway. and then. I think the organization was like the biggest thing, I just, you know, doing it through the notes section of my phone was just so much work.

So like scroll up and down and go back and forth. I think that was one area I would work on. outside of that, I think. there were like a few people where I felt guilty. Like I’m actually going to dinner with a couple of them just says like, thank you is now.

But there were a couple of people where they kind of like helped me. And they were like actions that these four companies. And I kind of felt like I almost like exhausted those people a little bit where I was like, Hey, can you like send that intro? Did you send that one? And I almost felt like I put too much work on them.

So I think I would have stripped away some of that work and been like, can I just send the intro and say that I’m sending this on behalf of you, things like that. so I did have some kind of, a little bit of remorse in terms of just putting other people like into my process.

So there’s a ton of learnings, but, one of the other things that I learned kind of part way through this process, that helped me a ton too, which again, I don’t know if this is like, I always think things are like psychological tactics, but I don’t think they are half the time, so a lot of times, like recruiters when I was interviewing would ask like, do you know about our company or would you like me to give a brief overview and then we can kind of dive further into the conversation?

And so like, initially it was kind of, it’s one of those questions where it seems obvious like, Oh, you can go ahead into your spiel, whatever. but then this, so probably like full interviews and I was like, it’s weird that everyone asks this question. why do they even ask if  it’s just going to lends itself to them starting and speaking.

So, what I did was, I started taking that section and I would say like, let me tell you kind of what my understanding of your organization is. And then you fill in the blanks for me and let me know if I missed anything, if you’re, so I think you’re competing with, but let me know if I’m wrong. And I feel like that really catapulted those conversations a lot more than those first initial conversations too.

Interesting. Yeah, I like it.


There’s a lot. I’m gonna have to go back and listen to this whole thing. So there’s a lot to unpack. I think you’ve, you’ve given us a lot of different kind of, kind of cool takes on stuff to do. any other advice you’ve got for them, job seekers out there, anything else that you would tell people?

Things they should start doing now, things that you think that you maybe you’ve you’ve had colleagues, who were also looking that weren’t doing and, or whatever, like anything you want to tell anyone else.

Yeah, I think, you know, definitely the social media piece, people will make fun of it all the time. They’re like, Oh yeah. Like, you know, you overuse LinkedIn, whatever I’m telling you, like that was the most crucial piece to the search. So even if you thought you didn’t need it or you’ve done well in sales all along or whatever industry you’re in LinkedIn is such an invaluable resource to like really get on top of it.

The other piece that I think, especially given everything that’s going on right now, protect your mental state during the process, I’m seeing so many people and it hurts to like watch cause I’m in different forums and chats and slacks and people are like getting just so upset, you know, like one interview goes wrong.

Just get as many interviews in, as you can, even if it’s companies, I took a few interviews with companies that we’re probably not going to be even close to a match, but I did it because I needed the practice. And I honestly, I was like, if nothing else, I’m connecting with a sales leader that I think will be really valuable for me to know down the road.

So if nothing else, I’m not losing anything from the conversation.  really putting yourself out there and that way. But I think like the, the mental state thing, like if you feel like you’re hitting a wall and you’re getting exhausted and you’re starting to get frustrated, that shows in an interview.

So if you’re feeling like that, maybe take a day or two breather. And I know it’s hard to think like that because people have,  mortgages to pay and different things that they have to do. But on the same time, I think you really need to make sure you’re in the right head space when you’re doing these interviews.

And if you do feel, desperate and it comes off in that interview, it’s just hard for that interviewer to get really excited about you. So I know it’s tough for you, but you have yourself breathers space it out. but also be talking to enough companies that you’re not. Placing all your bets on one.

So you’re not devastated if that one doesn’t work out because it’s, really competitive right now. But I will say the one really positive thing that I’m seeing right now is there are a ton of jobs across different industries, all opening up. The difference is where they used to hire like a class of five or six at a time.

Now there may be hiring one or two. So that part has changed, but I am seeing a lot more racks open, which is a really, really positive sign. So I’m excited to see that. And I think people that are searching should be optimistic about that too. The fact that all these roles are starting to open back up.

Yeah, and I can vouch for that too. Like we’re seeing a pretty big uptick in the last, you know, a month or two, or it’s been kind of progressive. So there’s more companies hiring sales is still one of the hotter areas to be, to be Frank, technologies. It’s what really is, I think driving a lot of the, the hiring and I’d say sales kind of closely follow behind that, but you just have to stay on it.

I mean, there’s what you said about kind of LinkedIn, I think. People misunderstand, like I think personal brand is something that’s important for everyone and when I say that it’s not to become like some big influencer it’s to enable better networking, and I think that’s really the key to all this.

And it’s something you can do just a little bit here and there. Ongoing. That way in the future, whether it’s a year from now three years now, whenever you have to start a search, it’s so much easier when you’ve done a better job of staying on top of your networking and you have a better kind of cadence in terms of, staying active with it.

That being able to turn on a search like you did is just, is that much easier? So.

Once you get to a certain point, like, there are people that I reached out to,  way in advance of when I started actively looking where I just shot a note on LinkedIn. And I was like, Hey, I’m actually going to start to keep my eyes and ears open for stuff.

And they were sending me things within like a week of that just automatically like, Hey, here’s our here’s someone I know. Well, I know they’re about to start hiring for sales. So,  to your point, that’s the real power of the platform is having. And that ability to create a really genuine network and people who are actively wanting to help you become better help you find opportunities.

And I think that’s. the most powerful aspect of LinkedIn. I mean, you don’t have to be an influencer, like a guru or whatever.  but you should create those genuine relationships so that if you ever need to call upon those people, you can, and then it’s kind of a, you know, you want to do the same thing for them.

So now that I have my role, I’m really happy. You know, I’m now trying to do as many sessions as I can with other people that are looking or other people that are in the process are getting frustrated because I want to help them the way that other people open their networks. Me. So,

You’ve covered a lot. So I was going to ask the way I always kind of wrap these up is just like asking, is there anything else you want to highlight? I don’t know if you have anything else. but  if there’s anything else you wanted to discuss and you want to kind of mention before we kind of wrap this up, I think you’ve done a lot of, lot of good helping a lot of people, so,

Thank you. Yeah, I think the only other piece, that I would mention is the scorecard piece, which we didn’t really dive into. so Amy Ball is it. She has a really good scorecard template and I put it into the comments section of like two or three, my last post. So I’m always, you know, sharing it out. but essentially like the score card or whatever you want to call it.

But before you kind of dive deeper into the search, really getting serious about what matters to you and PRI making like a priority list, which sounds cheesy. Cause people don’t like, like a pro con list, but I think it’s super helpful because you need a guiding light to kind of. Figure out what matters and also changes the tone of the questions that you’re going to ask in the interview.

So for this type of time around reordered things. So I don’t totally know what my order would have been in the past, but this time it was leadership career path thing, and then a strong, achievable OTE. So all of my questions kind of funneled through those items consistently. And I think that’s the power of doing one of these acts of these exercises or these activities that makes you get really, thorough about what you’re asking and kind of the information you’re trying to collect.

And then it changes the tone of the question. So like in the past, I kind of just focused on money broadly. And so it was like, Oh, you know, whatever pays well, the reality is I’m sure, you know, there’s a lot of sales positions. We’ll say, you know, our OT is two 50, 300 it’s whatever, how many reps are actually hitting that OT.

And I think so then my questions really changed in this last third. And anybody that I was interviewing with, who answered that question and kind of a sketchy way where they were like, well, a lot of our team’s on pace to hit quota and I’m like, he don’t ask the question a little bit and I’d get a similar answer.

I was like red flag. This is, you know, so I think. You start to get a little bit more strategic there and you start to hear things that you wouldn’t have noticed. And past searches, I’ve made that mistake more than once where people are like, Oh, we have a lot of you have potential to hit quota. And I’m like, cool.

Check the box. But this time I really dug into some of that. So I highly recommend like, thinking about your past roles. And what really shaped success for you in those roles. And for me, a lot of that was when I had really strong leadership. So I really wanted to hyper on that, this time around.

So just something else to think about.

That’s great. Once we kind of wrap this up, I’ll obviously be kind of resharing and posting it, but I want to include that scorecard document that you mentioned. Awesome. No, this is, this has been fantastic. So thank you so much for taking the time today.

and I guess everyone out there, thanks for listening to the talent insights podcast. If you like, what you heard and want more insights from our team, is it And remember to subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify and YouTube Alexia. Thanks again for joining and everyone out there.

Thanks for tuning in. Hit us, hit both of us up. If you have any other questions and see you guys soon.


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