Creative Recruitment: Strategies for Engaging Emerging Talent with Katie Stapor

[00:00:00] Hello, social media followers, LinkedIn, Facebook, and everyone tuning into our show. Welcome to Beyond the Offer podcast. I’m your host, Rosanna Snediker, joined by my co host and friend, Bill Gates. Thank you for tuning in as we tackle the latest trends and challenges in talent acquisition and human resources.

[00:00:17] We’re very excited today to have Katie Stapor as our guest. Katie is currently the VP and Director of Talent at FCB Chicago, an advertising company based here in Chicago. Katie has a very impressive background at FCB, starting her career there in 2011 with seven promotions over the years. Katie, we are so excited to have you on the podcast.

[00:00:37] Welcome to Beyond the Offer. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here. Yeah, we’re very excited. And I mean, 2011 started in FCB. That is, that is crazy to think we’re in 2025 now, and you’ve been there that long. So very impressive background. Yeah, I, made the joke earlier, but I am the worst millennial ever, as I like to call myself.[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Well, we kick off the podcast. We asked all of our guests just kind of how they got into HR and recruiting once they did graduate college. So tell us your story. How did you get into the space? Yeah, I’ll be honest. Very accidentally. I went to college and really was hot on the public relations and really wanted to do that.

[00:01:19] I did a bunch of internships. I studied STRATCOM. and then as soon as I graduated, I kind of had this aha moment of, I don’t want to do that. I had a friend at the time that worked at FCB in our media department, and she told me that there was an opening for a recruiting coordinator I was sort of like I don’t even know what HR is but sure that sounds cool and I kind of remember walking in to interview that day, and I had just fallen in love with the office I fell in love with the people I always said, like, it didn’t feel like an interview and I vividly remember walking out and even calling my mom and being like, I really hope I get that because that seems like a really awesome opportunity.

[00:01:58] So very thankful [00:02:00] for that friend and very thankful that it, they were open to a background that wasn’t necessarily what I have been studying. So, yep. And so many people I feel like say that they’re like, I fell into HR. I fell into recruiting. I, I did the same and I think Bill the same. So we can- everyone falls into recruiting

[00:02:19] I think is really the, the key about it, but you don’t typically go to college and. Outside of maybe, you know, getting involved in campus recruiting when you’re in college and, you know, hey, I love this and I want a career in this, but it’s pretty rare, you know, for sure. But as Ro mentioned, you know, Katie, you know, you’ve been at FCB since 2011, which obviously is extremely impressive.

[00:02:41] What has kept you there for, for 14 years? I always say the same thing whenever I’m interviewing someone and they get, I get this question, but one, it sounds cheesy, but the people, I mean, I, I think as an HR person, you’re only as strong as the relationships that you’ve built alongside of you and. I want [00:03:00] to continue to support these people.

[00:03:02] I know them incredibly well. I know what makes them tick. I know what makes them not tick. and I also think that I’ve been very lucky, but I’ve also had the approach of, I’ve tried to look at everything as an opportunity. And the fact that I’ve been able to raise my hand and say, can I do this? from covering maternity leave

[00:03:20] to even just saying, I’m going to try a different aspect of HR for a year or two, just to, you know, get a different experience, a little scary. You don’t know if you’re going to like it. I always say to like, I vividly remember going from recruiting to a more generalist role. I was terrified. I loved that job.

[00:03:38] I was a generalist. I still am a generalist. I like to say for almost six years. And if I had said no to that, I would never have fallen in love with that. So. I’m very lucky, I think, in the sense of I’ve been given those opportunities, but I’ve also felt empowered to raise my hand and say, let’s try this.

[00:03:56] even if it’s a little scary. What’s, how have you seen it kind of change [00:04:00] over the years, over the basically decade and a half? CB or? Yeah. Yeah. FCB. Yeah. I mean, I like to say all we’ve done is change. I mean, when I first joined, we were draft F. C. B. Now we’re F. C. B. we’ve had, I think, three leadership team changes since I’ve been at the agency as well.

[00:04:21] I mean, our clients change every year. our approach to the work changes every year. I remember, I was actually pulling up our branding the other day. We first started with, like, 6. 5 seconds that matter. That’s what really, like, draws someone into an ad. Now we are never finished. so having those different philosophies and the way that we approach our work is important.

[00:04:42] That fun thing called COVID also changed the way that we work and function. but I mean, I, all we’ve done is change and you should be changing in my opinion. You don’t want to stay stagnant, especially in an industry, such as advertising. So it’s been kind of a fun challenge within HR as well.[00:05:00]

[00:05:00] Yeah. Well, and that’s what’s probably kept you there. Like you said, you’ve been able to change your role within HR, but also being in an industry that’s always changing, how they look at things, your clients change, like, it probably doesn’t feel like you’ve been at the same organization and same job for 14 years.

[00:05:14] Yeah, for sure. And I think that’s also another exciting thing is, I always say, like, when I get bored and I’m like, I’ve done this Like, maybe I need a new challenge, every day there’s a new challenge. Like, you think you’ve seen it all. You haven’t seen it all. So, I think that’s also really exciting too.

[00:05:31] Yeah. How do you, I mean, being in HR and recruiting and with the client’s demand is kind of how your business runs. How do you handle that from an HR and recruiting function when the business demand can change so quickly? Quarterly, you know, you lose a big client and you’ve got to go through a reduction.

[00:05:48] Or you. You’ve got to recruit a ton of people very quickly. How does that work for you and your team? I think what I’ve been really trying to push is again, that’s where relationship management is [00:06:00] key. If you understand our businesses, you understand what our leadership and what are, you know, agency people’s expectations are and what they’re being held to by their clients.

[00:06:13] If you understand the goals, you can better support from everything from, you know, all aspects of HR, not just recruiting. So I think education is key, because if I’m sitting down with someone and I know what talent gaps they have, and I know what they’re looking to do in the next, you know, two years, and I know what the client’s expectations are, expectations are.

[00:06:34] Even the little surprises don’t even feel that much like surprises because we’re ahead of the game. And we, sometimes in those cases too, we might even have a different suggestion than they have and that’s when I really feel like we’re making a difference because it’s. Hey, you think you need this?

[00:06:50] Let me tell you why I think you need this instead and again, sometimes that leads to a better outcome and ultimately a better relationship too. Yeah. The proactiveness of [00:07:00] it in a react, when you have to be reactive, but being proactive on the front end of it. So much of the recruiting is relationship based, obviously, but switching gears to a little bit more.

[00:07:10] So, which is also relationship based too, but each year, I know, FCB hires interns entry level folks kind of does that whole, you know, campus, recruiting piece out of college. What are some of the creative ways, you know, and other agencies I would imagine are doing the same thing as for the, you know, accenture’s and the consulting firms, etc.

[00:07:29] But what are some of the creative ways you stand out from other agencies and competitors when, when hiring kind of more to campus entry level level. This changes too. I mean, I that was my bread and butter when I first started. Like I ran our internship program, stepped away from it. I would say over probably the last nine years and now I’m back in the thick of it again.

[00:07:51] So it’s kind of a welcome return. What we’ve really kind of targeted this year. We actually just launched our applications for [00:08:00] internship program on Monday. So good timing, but we’ve been partnering a lot with our internal teams from our design team to our content creators to really kind of approach people at where they’re at, you know, people are on TikTok, you know, people are on social media.

[00:08:14] It’s not going to a career fair like I was at, you know, back in 2011 and 2012. I also read a really interesting article that a lot of people want to be found. They don’t want to go find you. and what I think is also interesting, too, is, you know, when I was recruiting, we didn’t have that problem. You know, we had such a great reputation and it’s advertising and it’s cool and culture, you know, people wanted to work for us.

[00:08:40] It’s competitive out there now. I mean, there’s. All these big tech companies, there’s other kinds of agency life that, you know, are buying for people’s attention. I will always say that what kind of makes us stand out, though, is we are a fun place to work. You know, you can come in and be yourself and get an [00:09:00] opportunity to be as creative as possible.

[00:09:01] And I always say, I don’t care if you’re applying for the creative Department or you’re applying for another department. We expect creativity like that. Everyone should have that because that’s what makes our jobs the way that they are. so again, we’re always trying to evolve that programming how we’re finding people.

[00:09:20] but it’s but the career fair still are. I would still they’re still there, right? I mean, it’s just they’ve obviously it’s it seems to be, as you’re saying, folks right out of school want to be more sought after etcetera. But the actual fair they still exist, right? Or have they completely been scrapped? Do, but it’s not what it used to be.

[00:09:42] I think to the virtual nature is still a thing. Like, we’ve had a lot of requests to, you know, join maybe a campus presentation or, you know, come in and, you know talk about advertising for a class or something like that. One of the things that we’re actually [00:10:00] playing around with right now, too, is we’re very lucky.

[00:10:02] We have an annex office in the West Loop, and we are going to be bringing students in from different organizations in different schools. to one, get to see a space that’s incredibly creative. This is where we bring clients. This is where we film content. and you get to not only learn a little bit about us, but you know, we’re going to have some content sessions to, to kind of see where your creativity is.

[00:10:26] And ultimately, could we see you joining us? you know, from an entry level position, all the way to the internship as well. So I think, too, trying to bring students to us as opposed to, you know, trying to meet students at organizations is a little bit of a different approach as well. Wow. That sounds so different.

[00:10:43] I remember getting so excited to go to the career fairs. You know, you go from like the booth to the booth with your resumes. So it was all about the swag, the pen, the stress balls. So, so different. So do you guys actually do recruiting then on TikTok, instagram? Like, do you have someone at [00:11:00] FCB who’s responsible for that social media piece?

[00:11:02] So we partner with like our new business and our corporate communications team just to make sure, you know, we have assets and a schedule of when those things are happening. I mean, we do things the old fashioned way too, right? We have to make sure that we have strong partnerships with different schools and organizations.

[00:11:18] I think what’s nice too is with a diverse body at the agency. You’re really tapping into all different types of people. and obviously we want to hire out of our internship. So we like to try and, you know, keep it somewhat Midwestern because, you know, we want people to stay in Chicago. but with that said, I mean, we found people

[00:11:39] from California to Maine that have ultimately, you know, wanted to move here. So, you know, that, that just kind of gives a little bit of a sneak peek into, you know, we’re open to anyone, but I want, we want you to work with us, which, you know, I feel like a lot of companies, it’s just like coming for the summer and yeah, you get that experience.

[00:11:56] We’re like coming for the summer, stay with us. Yeah, try it out and hopefully [00:12:00] you come back once you graduate. Exactly, exactly. You brought up a good point. I mean, FCB has such a wide variety of backgrounds, like you hire people right out of college, but then we have people interview with you all, and they’ve, like yourself, you’ve been there for 14 years, there’s people that have been there 20 plus years, so you’ve got all different types of generations and folks in the workforce, so that’s.

[00:12:20] That’s impressive. You don’t see that everywhere. we talked about it a little bit earlier, but we talk to a lot of HR candidates, or I should say recruiters, that want to pivot into HR. Whether it’s at their organization, or they’re just burnt out on recruiting. They want to become, you know, more of a generalist, get that skill set.

[00:12:36] You have, you know, been able to do that at your, organization. Tell us about that, just how you’ve successfully done that and what advice you’d give to someone who is looking to step out of talent acquisition and move more into an HR role. Yeah, I love this question because it’s so interesting. I’ve had so many recruiters reach out to me to be like, how can I pivot?

[00:12:58] Or I’m terrified, but I [00:13:00] think I want to pivot. I love recruiting, but the one thing that lacked for me was it just was Groundhog Day. It was constant repetition and I was like, I just want to build a relationship. Like that was really my aha moment. We had a generalist on the team at the point. that had resigned.

[00:13:17] And I remember being like, okay, that’s new. That’s scary. That’s different. Maybe I should try it. And so I had raised my hand and said, would you consider me for this opportunity? And they were like, who knew? We didn’t know you were even interested. I’m like, well, I don’t know if I am, but I want to try it.

[00:13:33] This is something that I think could be really beneficial, and let’s try it. Let’s see if it works. And like I said, it was one of the best decisions that I made. I always say to people, I don’t care what you’ve done, even if it’s in HR or not in HR, But being able to build relationships and problem solve are two of, I think, the biggest things that will lead to your success. Do people trust you? Do you know how to make someone’s problem your problem? [00:14:00] Like, those are transferable skills, in my opinion. And I think a great project to get involved in, that’s a very easy connection, is anything within that talent mobility space? Because you’re helping internal talent find homes. It’s very similar to recruiting.

[00:14:17] it’s just not an external presence. It’s an internal presence. But then you really get to learn a little bit more about again, the organization, what people are looking for. You have that recruiting experience from like negotiation to how you’re selling a role. You’re working with hiring managers to make sure that, you know, people are able to move around the organization freely.

[00:14:36] There’s a lot of red tape. As you can imagine, like people don’t want to give up good talent. They like, I don’t want you to go over there. You need to stay right here. Sometimes promotions are involved in that. Like, and again, as with candidates, like this is scary for people. They want. They want the reassurance that they’re making the right decision.

[00:14:53] So sometimes it’s even telling them, I don’t know if this is the right decision for you. So being comfortable having those [00:15:00] kinds of conversations. But again, that, I mean, problem solving in relationships. Right there. Yeah, so I always say like I think that’s the easiest entry point because a lot of organizations Struggle trying to figure out how to solve that talent mobility And I think that that’s a very easy connection point for a recruiter to kind of cross over. Yeah Well, I love that you did it internally your organization because I think a lot of people think like oh I’ve been a recruiter and I’m gonna go try to be an HR BP at this time Next company and it’s like it’s easier to kind of transition internally where you can and you even said you’re back in recruiting now, you know, running that so it’s full circle, but it’s probably a bit easier if you just do it internally at your organization and raise your hand like you did.

[00:15:42] Yeah, well, it’s, it’s almost, I would say it’s not impossible but it’s very difficult to move from like pure skills are recruiting and trying to move to a business partner role whereas obviously. You know, you’ve proven yourself at your current organization. You’ve been in recruiting, you raise your hand, you want to try something new and [00:16:00] move into a business partner role.

[00:16:01] They’re way more inclined to say, Hey Katie, you’re terrific. You’ve been awesome at your, your job. You’ve done awesome things. We know you don’t have and recognize you don’t have these skills, but you know, you probably have worked with some of those folks or maybe even potentially your manager. You know, so they’re going to be way more inclined to do that internally where we’d love to place people going from recruiting to a business partner, but usually the requirements have employee relations and, you know, a lot of other requirements to where most of the recruiters don’t have experience on things.

[00:16:30] So it’s great to hear that FCB provides you that ability because that doesn’t happen at all organizations. But, I think what’s interesting, too, is a recruiter, though, has those skills like you’re, you’re dealing with people that are making massive life changes. You’re having people that are emotional.

[00:16:47] You’re having people change their mind. You’re having to deliver bad news. You’re delivering good news. Sometimes you’re delivering okay news. That’s a generalist. Yeah, it’s just packaged differently. So I think. Even just [00:17:00] how you approach that role, I think if you have the right mindset, and again, if relationship management is a key driver for you, I truly think it’s transferable.

[00:17:10] You just have to find the ways to make it a little bit more, you know, I’m not just a recruiter. I like, look at these skills that I have built and look at some of the situations I’ve been put in and how I’ve been able to navigate those. Absolutely. Well, switching gears a bit more away from recruiting, but, training, learning and development, you know, you’ve done that also throughout your career as well.

[00:17:33] How do you balance the in person and remote learning at FCB, you know, and what advice would you give an organization still trying to figure out how do you make this, you know, hybrid model work for training, learning and development? Yeah, I think we’ve taken a pretty strong stance. To be honest, we’ve been doing almost 100 percent in person learning.

[00:17:55] And the reason for that is we have found a higher level of [00:18:00] engagement with our employees. It’s so easy to get distracted when you’re remote and training is a massive investment. Like, I think this is one of the things that we’re working on right now with our employees. Please like it’s a time investment.

[00:18:12] It’s also a huge financial investment into you. So we want to make sure that you have no distractions that you’re able to be present and you’re able to take away what you’re learning even in the training. Because again, it’s all great to sit there for two or three or four hours and get the skills.

[00:18:28] But if you go back to your desk and you forget about it, It, you know, it’s not something that was useful. So we’re really also trying to push that continued learning aspect, whether that be, we revisit content after 60 or 90 days, or we’re giving you a coach to kind of help, you know, reinforce the learnings that maybe you’ve learned.

[00:18:47] So I think those are kind of been some new things that we’ve been trying out in the L&D space. Have there been folks that have been resist, I mean, resistant to kind of coming in? You know, to to the office. I mean, predominantly, you guys [00:19:00] are mostly in Chicago, of course, but, you know, like, there’s a lot of other organizations out there that may not have the luxury, or it might be much more expensive, obviously, to fly a bunch of people in from a training and learning and development perspective.

[00:19:13] And you may not be able to get that L&D aspect of things. have you found people that have been a bit more resistant? I guess. To coming into the office and and because I agree with you, right? I mean, it’s so easy to get distracted when you’re at home. And, you know, you’re on a zoom like, like this and learning about, X, Y and Z, and getting distracted.

[00:19:33] Whereas, if you’re in person, it’s, it’s much easier to stay engaged, but has there been kind of more of a resistance on on that front? And what about more remote cultures that may not have the luxury of bringing individuals into the office? So I was gonna say, we’re lucky we we are in office Tuesday, Wednesdays and Thursdays.

[00:19:52] So we truly try to have trainings on those days, knowing that people are in the office, We do offer some things to [00:20:00] we, we have probably a very small population of employees that are remote. For various reasons. We have things like educational reimbursement. We have offered virtual trainings just depending on the subject and whatnot.

[00:20:12] So it’s not something that’s like 100%. No, I think if you are in a remote environment, though. What Even more reason to like, invest in. Is it the right training opportunity? And what are the expectations that you’re setting ahead of time? So like, you know, cameras on. I want to make sure that you’re participating with the vendor.

[00:20:36] Because I think to for like from a training standpoint, like you’re giving up your time and energy to sit there and train if people are not looking engaged, you’re also wasting money from an HR perspective on that, you know, people are going to be like, okay, that was fun. And then they’re going to move on.

[00:20:49] Like I said, so I think really investing in doubling down on what’s the topics that really matter to us short, you know, like small bursts, not these long, [00:21:00] all day, multiple day trainings. People just don’t have time for that. and again, how am I able to apply this? What am I taking away from this training so that I can go put something into practice?

[00:21:10] Something simple, something sticky that’s gonna, you know, truly stick the minute that you walk out of that training session. Well, and the follow up you said, you know, the 60 day or however long it needs to be, but kind of not leave it at the end of training, where are we going from there? Because it’s something we’ve, we’ve talked about on, I think, some of our other episodes.

[00:21:30] I mean, we used to sit, you know, Bill and I used to sit right next to each other. I’d pull up my chair, you know, people hear each other on the phone. We’re not in that world anymore for us. So it’s like, how do we train? How do we get people that type of experience in a remote environment? And it’s, it’s tricky, so.

[00:21:46] Well, and I think it’s also how you launch it and how you talk about it too, right? Like training should be fun, but trainings work. It’s not just like a break to like, you have people that look at training is like, Oh my [00:22:00] God, you want me to go in training? What’s wrong? And it’s like, nothing’s wrong. It’s an investment.

[00:22:04] Like you, you should be like ecstatic that you’ve been tapped on the shoulder for something like that. Or people look at it as like, Yeah. Break from my day. And it’s like, well, it’s not a break from your day. This is something that you really need to be leaning into to grow. Or maybe you’ve been asking for this.

[00:22:20] So I, I’ll be honest, we’ve been trying to work on this. It’s like, I want people to go into it and be like, you know, I need to work on this. I’m, I’m tapped in like. This is great. I’m so happy that this is an opportunity they’ve given me. And that’s something we’re still working through because I again, I just I don’t think people necessarily see the financial cost of what a training is, which I understand.

[00:22:41] I mean, that’s not necessarily their job, but I also want them to understand the expectations to it’s it’s to help you grow. It’s to help you, you know, work on a skill that you’re trying to work on and ultimately to be better at what you’re doing. Yeah, well, we’re [00:23:00] talking a lot about, you know, professional training, but let’s kind of shift to even like your personal career development through mentorship, whether that’s in your network or at your organization, you know, what steps have you taken throughout your career to identify a mentor and how have you kind of kept that?

[00:23:16] that ongoing and kept that relationship productive because similar to training, if you just say like, Oh, I want a mentor, I want to, you know, have someone to talk to. And then there’s not a follow up or an action item, it can fall through the cracks. So we’d love to hear your thoughts there, if you have any experience personally from that.

[00:23:31] Yeah. I would say I’ve never really done. The formal mentorship route. I think what’s always interesting to me is when you know, people are asking about mentorship or they want to bring that to them an organization. You have to be really careful with it because you have to define what it means. People look at mentorship very differently.

[00:23:49] We currently partner with a company called better up and they offer on demand coaching kind of for the masses, which, you know, a couple of years ago, you know, you really only saw [00:24:00] coaching for executive level talent. It’s not, you know, for your mid or even your entry level talent. And I had a lot of people coming to me like, this is like work therapy.

[00:24:09] And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, it’s not a therapist. I had a couple of people be like, it’s like a mentor. I’m like, nope, it’s not a mentor. So. I always think it’s interesting that if you’re going to do something like that, you need to really Be clear on what the difference between those certain things are so that people’s expectations are set.

[00:24:29] Also going into a mentorship, like, it’s just as much for you as it is for the other person. And I don’t always feel like people prepare. So it’s like, well, what do you want to get out of this? What are your goals? And that will help you determine who you even want to potentially mentor you because if you’re really interesting on, let’s say, trying a new department, you’re like, Hey, I’m kind of lost right now.

[00:24:50] And I think I want to try this over here. Well, then maybe getting a mentor in the department that you’re interested would be a great first step as opposed to just reaching out to someone [00:25:00] randomly, or maybe someone who’s made the transition to a different department. and again, you’re driving that relationship.

[00:25:05] Like you’re on the hook to schedule meetings. You need to be prepared for meetings. I think one of the things we’re working through at FCB2 is like it’s a two way street. It’s not just one person that’s driving that relationship. It’s like a friendship. It’s like a marriage. You know, you, you have to both show up for each other.

[00:25:22] I’ve done in more informal mentorship, I’d say. I mean, I’ve, again, I’ve have past HR partners that I stay in contact with to, you know, talk about HR and what they’re doing at their organizations. I have the lovely opportunity of working with some executive coaches and I like to say they kind of coach me on the side sometimes because it’s just, that’s the relationship, you know, they’re working with our people.

[00:25:46] I’m keeping them updated on what’s going on in our organization. Sometimes that blends and they need to have that understanding as well. So nothing formalized. But whenever someone asks me about that, I always like to say, like, define [00:26:00] the relationship, understand what you want out of it. And make sure that you’re showing up for that person as well.

[00:26:06] Yeah. When you made mention of staying in touch with like former HR partners, I think that’s so important to kind of know, especially if you’ve been with an organization a long time, to know what else is going on in the industry and stay in touch with people. Well, and I think too, you learn from each other.

[00:26:20] Like what are you doing over there about this problem? Oh, that’s interesting. You know, like we share resources. We, you know, talk about the good, bad and ugly. I think when you’re so pigeonholed and you’re, you know, you’re, This is all I can see in front of me, and it sometimes opens things up to be like, Oh, why aren’t we talking about that?

[00:26:39] Or why are we not approaching a situation like that company is? And again, it’s not always apples to apples, but it makes you just think a little bit differently. Yeah. And that’s what’s interesting, I think, about like mentorships and, or just being a manager in general, right? When you’re a manager in general, you have certain things that you’re supposed to do.

[00:26:56] You’re supposed to meet one time a week, or, you know, you have your formal [00:27:00] performance reviews, etc., right? And sometimes that may seem forced, etc., right? Like, but when you’re a mentorship program, or you are their manager as well, right? Like, it’s a bit more about not making it seem like it’s forced having a check in on a certain, unformalized time to when you’re actually supposed to meet and checking in on something, whether it’s personal or professional and bouncing ideas off of somebody, you know, that, is going through something that, is challenging in their actual career, etc.

[00:27:29] So it’s, I think it’s a, it’s trying to find whether it’s a mentorship or a balance for, a manager is to really make it seem more genuine, obviously, than just like force, which you’re, you know, you’re saying in regard to the mentorship program, it’s not like a formalized process. It’s like, Hey, I’m reaching out to you because I want you to progress in your career.

[00:27:50] We can bounce ideas off each other. And yeah, I mean, that’s definitely what we’ve seen as something very, effective, , for, for progress and folks career. [00:28:00] So. one, kind of shifting a bit gears to, you know, the, the job market more so, I mean, we’ve kind of seen a last four years with COVID and, you know, a massive resurgence in 21 and 22, you know, but the job market is certainly been up and down depending on kind of the industry you work with, and when you’ve been entering the current job market, you know, out of college, what advice would you give kind of our listeners?

[00:28:26] and, and others and yourself, when you do search for a job, whether it’s at a college or you’re shifting gears and you’ve got five or six years into your career. So, I always feel like recruiters will get mad at me for this, but at the same time, I think it’s the best advice. And I wish someone had told me this when I was out of college, you don’t have to know what you want to be when you grow up.

[00:28:50] In fact, try things that you think you may not like, because I was very lucky to do some [00:29:00] internships before I graduated. And those internships very quickly helped me decide I don’t want to be in public relations. And That’s good. Like I, I walked out of there going, I don’t want that. And here’s the reason why, like, I don’t want to be in crisis mode.

[00:29:15] I don’t, I don’t want someone to tell me what I have to tell someone to do from a press release or, you know, whatever it may be. And recruiting, I tried it. I didn’t like the repetition. I didn’t like the groundhog day. I didn’t like that. I wasn’t building longstanding relationships. Like there’s nothing wrong with that.

[00:29:33] That helps you actually, in my opinion, get to what you do want to do. And I think there’s so much pressure that you have to have it figured out and you need to know exactly what you want to do. And if you, if you have to make a career change, like you’ve almost failed. I know so many people that are not doing what they were doing out of college.

[00:29:54] unless you are a doctor, a lawyer, like those tend to be [00:30:00] people that have, you know, a little bit more of an idea of what they want that I, to be fair, I even know people that have gone back to school to become doctors and lawyers because they were like, I actually learned halfway through that that’s something I wanted to do.

[00:30:13] So I just personally feel like that that’s the best advice. It’s try things and don’t get so hooked on- am I going to want to do this for the rest of my life? The other thing that I think is huge is your alumni network. I have so many people reach out to me that are like, Hey, I went to Miami of Ohio. So You know, I’m from Miami.

[00:30:35] I’m I’m in your shoes. You know, help me. I am always happy to do an informational chat or a coffee chat and give advice. Building those connections, whether it be through linked in or, you know, family members or friends or acquaintances like that goes a long way. Obviously, you need to be prepared for those discussions and your expectations have to be said.

[00:30:55] It’s just because we have a coffee doesn’t mean I can offer you a job on the spot. But [00:31:00] I could potentially give you some great advice. I could keep you in mind. We have an opportunity. Maybe I know of someone that’s looking for something. So I just I think people who are a little bit more passive, they miss out on some of those opportunities.

[00:31:13] And honestly, I always say small talk for the win. And again, one of the reasons I’m not a recruiter is small talk for the win is not something I love to do. But I have found so many people through weird circumstances. I hired my brother’s fraternity brother. Literally at a tailgate to come to our internship program because we had a 30 minute conversation about advertising and creativity.

[00:31:36] And I was like, this kid’s awesome. He’s asking me great questions and he wants to live in Chicago. Like I’m going to hire him. I had one of my friends friends find out that I worked at FCB and she literally was like begging to be, you know, interviewed for the internship program. And. My friend’s friend friend, like, passed her along to, like, I loved the fact that, like, people come into [00:32:00] your lives through various ways.

[00:32:01] And, like, I just, again, the smallest interaction can make the biggest difference. So I just tell people all the time, like, push yourself, like, ask someone a question. You never know who that person’s going to be, who that person knows, or what opportunity could kind of lie from that. So those are always kind of my biggest pieces of advice for folks.

[00:32:20] Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I think that’s so important for individuals to make sure that, and not just, you know, having a good network at, like, FCB, but, you know, as you mentioned, you can meet somebody at a tailgate. You can meet somebody at a, you know, a friend’s lunch that you may not necessarily know.

[00:32:37] It could be at an airport. I mean, there’s so many ways you can meet with individuals, but I think, you know, you hit on a really good point, too, about having a network of people also within your industry as well. You know, I always tell people from a job perspective, the worst time to look for a job is when you need a job

[00:32:53] and if, if you are looking, cause that’s when you take a job you usually don’t want because you, you’re, you know, [00:33:00] you’re out of work, right? Like if you’re happy in your role, but you kind of keep, you know, I think a lot of times people are very, I’ve talked to, you know, many of even C level HR executives before and they’re a little resistant or they’re very loyal to their organization for, for so long.

[00:33:15] And that’s important, of course, as well. But I think, you know, hearing about what other industries are doing or other competitors and bouncing ideas off of them and knowing kind of what they’re doing a little bit differently and incorporating that type of stuff in your day to day, it’s just so important.

[00:33:31] And it, you know, provides a maybe a open door for other opportunities to surface that may not necessarily surface if you were. Kind of more tunnel visioned and only kind of operating in your silo within your organization So that’s I couldn’t stress enough. I completely agree with you Katie that’s something that is is very important and the you know your point about the you know, the what you do right out of school doesn’t have to be You know everything that that is what you do longer term now.

[00:33:59] [00:34:00] I will push back a little bit on The earlier you find out what you love to do, the easier it is to transition from a career, right? There’s nothing worse than somebody trying to transition to, you know, eight years, nine years into their career and they’re used to making X amount of money and they kind of have to, you know, they try to switch careers, let’s say going from HR to marketing or whatever it might be, you know, and taking a huge pay cut is not usually something somebody wants to do.

[00:34:29] Or they’re financially able to do right out of the gate. So, you know, if you can learn that in your first one to three years of what you actually love, you know, you also don’t have to take that financial hit when you do, you know, make the shift to do something more that, you know, is something that’s enjoyable to you.

[00:34:45] And I think people don’t look at it this way, but like, that’s the push, right? It’s like, go into this and go, why don’t I like this? Like, ask, it’s, it’s the unco, I call it the uncomfy feeling. Cause everyone around you is like, I love my job, it’s amazing, it’s [00:35:00] great. And you’re like, well, I don’t know if I, First of all, like half the people that are telling you that don’t feel that way.

[00:35:06] And secondly, if you give yourself the space to say, this is what I don’t like. If you’re able to identify that or this is what I want, to your point, yeah, you need to figure that out sooner rather than later. But I don’t think people are having those kinds of conversations with themselves ’cause they don’t want to or they don’t feel like they can.

[00:35:25] Giving yourself the space to take some reflection, I think is the best thing that you can do because it will ultimately lead to better decision making. What if you confide in your manager too? I mean, that’s such an important relationship to have as well. I mean, you know, sometimes people don’t have necessarily the relationship with their managers where they can talk about, you know, maybe the personal stuff or, but like, you need to be able to get to a point with that manager also to say, Hey, you know, what do I, what do things look in three years for you?

[00:35:52] You know, what do you like about this job? What do you not? And you need to have that honest connection with them because, you know, any, hopefully the, the [00:36:00] manager is someone that has your best interest at heart. Cause that’s That’s what their job is but you know, if, if I think it’s also on the responsibility of the person being managed that you need to kind of seek out, Hey, what is the next step for me?

[00:36:13] You know, this is what I like. And if you don’t like something, you need to either kind of recognize that and figure it out, talk to a recruiter, talk to a career coach, talk to an executive coach, whoever it may be, family, friends, like what are you good at? And where, how does that translate to your career and, and, you know, types of professions that will work best for you.

[00:36:33] I think that is the biggest, we’ve talked about this before on our podcast in the past, but I think that’s the biggest miss in our education system is, you know, so many people. I think grow like, I mean, none of us really knew what we wanted to do at a school and you kind of fall into recruiting. But like, having an understanding, I mean, outside of what, you know, we have your parents take your parents or your kids to work day, but like, a lot of people don’t want to do what their parents do.

[00:36:59] A [00:37:00] lot of people don’t want to necessarily be a doctor or a lawyer. You know, be a technician and they’re a little bit different giving them in an educational system of understanding of where you know, this is what agencies do on a marketing front This is what and give them a little bit of taste of you know Where their core competencies and what are they like?

[00:37:17] I mean if you’re in if you want to be in sales, are you super competitive and things like that, right? Like what do you want to sell? All right, if you’re more creative artistic, okay, How do I go into the agency world or do I want to be more of an internal creative, you know, and like or designer, right? So I don’t think we do enough on an educational system platform to, for a lot of the folks, not only within like high school and, but also college to say, hey, here’s some different paths to kind of go.

[00:37:46] We have career fairs and career, programs within a lot of these schools, but, a lot of those individuals I think have been removed from the workforce for so long, and it’s hard for them to kind of gauge exactly what path there [00:38:00] is. Do you have any kind of like suggestions or thoughts surrounding that

[00:38:04] and in regard to kind of that educational system and providing a better knowledge transfer for? You know, I think I’ll be. Honest, like no hate for my college, but like, I don’t feel like I was prepared at all. I felt very lucky that I had internship experiences because it was the closest piece of the puzzle to like what a real person’s life looked like.

[00:38:32] And I had two very different experiences, which I think also helped. I interned at a nonprofit and I interned at a, fashion public relations agency. Very different. What I learned about in my nonprofit is like your work matters. Every detail matters. We, you know, you have limited funds. You’re helping people.

[00:38:55] In this case, it was for the leukemia and lymphoma society. Like you’re helping people that are going [00:39:00] through a terrible time in their lives and everything from an email that you’re sending to a donation request form matters. And I loved. That like I loved that everything that I touched had an impact, in terms of the complete opposite for the fashion public relations.

[00:39:18] I learned a lot of things work ethic. I worked 24 hours a day. I was not paid. I learned that you don’t get an A plus and a pat on the back for doing things right. That’s just, that’s the expectation. I learned that you sometimes have to do things that are not in your job description. I learned that, you know, it’s not going to be easy.

[00:39:43] You’re going to have to freaking figure it out. And that’s tough, especially for someone coming out of school. Cause it’s like, well, my paper’s due on Friday and I’ve only gotten A’s. So I should get an, like, It’s a complete mind, mind shift change. So I really think the more that you can put [00:40:00] yourself in opportunities to kind of get that exposure, the better you will be in the long run.

[00:40:06] Because again, you’re still figuring out what you like and what you don’t like, and you’re getting some of those critical skills. The number one thing I tell people is stop thinking about a promotion and how you can get ahead. Think about what you want. If I had any conversation with anyone at my agency, it’s like nine times out of 10, like, well, I just want to get promoted.

[00:40:29] Why, why do you want to get promoted? Yeah. It’s more money. Yeah. It’s a cool title. Maybe some additional perks. It’s not everything. And what happens is a lot of people, when they get that promotion or they get that increase or they get those perks. They’re not happy. So instead of taking some time to say, maybe I don’t want this and having those uncomfy conversations and trying those new things, you’re going to be happier in the long run.

[00:40:57] So I think, and, you know, with [00:41:00] social media and whatnot. You know, you’re comparing yourself to other people and you’re seeing how, you know, people are leading certain types of lives and they’re getting promotions and they’re doing all of these things, but it doesn’t necessarily give you happiness and what you’re looking for.

[00:41:14] So I always tell people, don’t chase the promotion, chase the opportunity. The promotion will come and you’ll be a lot more happier with it because you’re going to be happy with the decision that you made. So. It really is because promote. Sometimes we were so infatuated with the fact of being promoted and telling their friends about I got promoted.

[00:41:35] And then they, as you said, they get into the job and it’s not exactly that all they thought it was cracked up to be, which, you know, is as it goes back to kind of the core of, who you are, know what you want, you know, and, and also know yourself. Like I think people that really have the best self awareness on what they’re really strong at and where they’re weak on, or what are some of their biggest weaknesses allows them to work on some of [00:42:00] those weaknesses, but also use those skills and what are they, what are they strongest in to, to also excel in their career.

[00:42:07] So that’s a good piece. I love what you said there too. Everyone has a weakness. Everyone. And I don’t even like calling it a weakness. It’s like you have an area of opportunity. Like we do our performance review cycles once a year. I’m always shocked at people that are like, look at all the things I’m doing.

[00:42:23] It’s like, take a step back. What do you need to work on? You’re never going to become better. And like, I don’t care what title you are, from the president of our company all the way down to the most junior person, everyone has an area of focus. And the more that you can pay attention to that and invest in that and grow in that, again, you’re going to have a very bright future ahead of you instead of fighting it and trying to, you know, make it seem like it’s not a thing.

[00:42:51] Cause again, you’re going to go through another three to four years. Of battling that as opposed to spending the time and effort and to trying to make that better and [00:43:00] again, it’s not a light switch. It’s not something that necessarily even just changes. It’s just something that you maybe have to be more conscious of or work harder at.

[00:43:08] Yeah, the awareness around it is key. And it makes me think, I don’t know if either of you when you graduated, but I remember being taught in college when they ask you about your weaknesses. Spin it into a strength, you know, like, Oh, I do this, but it does this, which yeah, but I’m a hard worker. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, we all, like you said, we all have strengths and weaknesses.

[00:43:28] Knowing what your weaknesses is, is a strength. So, I mean, I, I always tell people like that and I’ve, I’ve had conversations with folks that are like, Oh my God, yes. My biggest area of opportunity when I was, you know, entry to mid level was I didn’t say no. Yeah. And I learned very quickly, yeah, like I got a lot of great opportunities because I didn’t do that.

[00:43:49] But I was also burnt to a crisp at that point because I just felt like I was giving all of these things, but I wasn’t giving myself anything. So then I had to get [00:44:00] to a point where I was like, I got to set some boundaries. I’m not going to do it in a disrespectful way, but like. I’m not going to be able to give you all the things that you’re looking for if I’m overpromising and I’m going to under deliver at some point and that, that, you know, that hurts my brand at that point.

[00:44:15] So again, like having those honest conversations with yourself to say, this isn’t working for me and it’s not going to work for you. It’s not just a selfish thing. It’s, it’s, it’s going to show up in the work that I’m producing and it’s going to show up in the relationships that I’m having. So yeah, that was interesting about college and you’re coming out, I mean, you asked me people right out of school.

[00:44:36] A lot of them don’t even know what their weakness is because they haven’t really been in the workforce necessarily, you know, and, and that’s why I think it is so important to be surrounded by people that, you’re learning from regularly, whether you’re managed by them or not, and that’s one of the biggest detriments, I think, to have more of a working or remote culture is you don’t pick up on some of the things you would if you were actually in the office more from that standpoint.

[00:44:59] [00:45:00] But, you know, the whole point of college. You know, and the heck high school too is showing up and literally completing a general set of tasks over a period of time and demonstrating to an employer that says, I’m going to do that when I, when, if, or if I do hire you, right? I mean, and that’s, you know, obviously some are going to be the McKenzie’s of the world are going to look a little bit more about where you went to school and.

[00:45:28] You know how well you did and from a grades perspective standpoint, but you know, it’s a lot of it’s about kind of showing up and making sure you are You know doing those tasks accordingly accordingly and you are reliable as well But if you’re surrounded by people and when once you actually join those organizations, you’re surrounded by people that You can learn from and grow with from that standpoint.

[00:45:50] I think you learn a lot more about yourself You learn a lot more about strengths and weaknesses what you want to do, you know, and where you want to go. And as long as you have enough time to [00:46:00] have from a self reflection period of time, because I don’t think we always do when you come home from work, as you’re usually complaining about some of the things that happened, at work that day.

[00:46:09] But if, you know, If you hit a point to where it’s like, Hey, this is maybe not the right shift is, does it make sense to do a career shift? Or maybe it’s just a shift internally of what you’re doing within that skill set that you may need to do for a, from a long term perspective. So this is all, this is definitely all good stuff.

[00:46:28] Yeah, I love all that. That was great advice. well we’re going to wrap things up with our unfiltered section. So that is just a little bit more kind of fun, not as work related questions, not as formal. and one we’ve kind of talked about is not knowing what any of us wanted to do out of college. But we were curious, when you were a younger child, you know, what did you want to be when you grew up?

[00:46:48] so, weird, but I wanted to own a pet store. Oh! Okay. or be in a vet, like, capacity, I would say. I love animals. I think, obviously, [00:47:00] growing up, you’re like, yay, like, you know, you get to hang out with the dogs and, you know, the cats and everything. And then I learned very quickly, one, you have to be very good at math.

[00:47:07] And two, you have to go to a lot of schooling. And three, dogs and cats die. So I learned very quickly that that was not something I wanted to do. Yeah. Hit you hard there. Do you have any animals now? I have a dog. I have a, she’s turning six in January. Pembroke Corgi. Lots of personality. Yeah, that’s, that’s great.

[00:47:27] No, absolutely. What about, another kind of unfiltered question? How about this? If, if you were, if you’d won the lottery and did not have to work, what would be the first thing you would spend your money on? And would you, you know, would you still work for fun? I would probably take some sort of amazing trip sabbatical, like, and go, you know, do all the things that I’ve been wanting to do.

[00:47:53] I call it my, like, never ending travel list because you’d have the time to do it. I’d have to work though. I mean, to be honest, [00:48:00] I’m just that person. I don’t think I could get up in the morning and it wouldn’t necessarily sorry, I have to be, be what I’m currently doing. But I

[00:48:08] think the biggest thing that drives me is like, I want to have an impact.

[00:48:14] I want to have passion for what I do. I always say, like, I’d love to own, like, a floral shop, like, I love flowers. They make me happy. They make other people happy, like, it would just, you know, yes, there’s probably stress involved in that job because you’re dealing with, you know, brides and things like that.

[00:48:29] But like, I just, I would probably do something like that. That’s just kind of fills my cup up and, a new set of challenges, but I’d have to work. I could not, I could not just travel for the rest of my life. Sounds like something I know myself. You gotta have some sort of routine, right? There’s got to be some sort of thing in place or a hobby and, and, you know, that keeps you kind of connected.

[00:48:49] Life can’t just be a complete long vacation. Yeah, I’m the same way. I think because you’ve worked for, you know, so long, you’re used to it. You are just kind of built to have that [00:49:00] type of mentality and that mindset. It’d be really hard to go to like a life of every single day. Oh, yeah, I, I’m that person that goes on vacation.

[00:49:07] I’m like on the last day. I’m like, okay, I’m done. I’d love to see a study. I’d love to see a study of some of the, I don’t think it’s ever happened, but if there was somebody that actually did win the lottery and just stayed into their, stayed in their regular job and acted like, you know, nothing had happened, they didn’t really change their life at all.

[00:49:26] I mean, I don’t think that’s actually going to be anybody. usually everyone gets rid of all their money and loses everything and spends it immediately and goes broke. But, that, that would be an interesting concept, but yeah. Well, where would you take your trip to? Oh gosh. Yeah. I’ve been to Australia and I absolutely loved it.

[00:49:44] I think New Zealand is like high on my list. So I would love to go there, but I’d also just love to do, like, legit all over Europe. Like I’ve never been to Italy, I’d love to go to Greece, Croatia, like there’s just, I don’t know, the list is endless. So that’s why I said sabbatical. I would just be like, [00:50:00] okay, we’re going to go over here for a week, we’re going to go over here for a week.

[00:50:03] so yeah. Absolutely. Well, that is all the time we have for today. Thanks for tuning in. To this week’s episode today. We met with Katie Stapor from FCB as we discussed her career in advertising, how to engage entry level talent, how to move from TA to HR and much more. We will be back again next month with our special new guest.

[00:50:26] Quick reminder again on how you can support Beyond The Offer podcast, you can find all of our content on Hirewell social media platform, which you can find on Hirewell.Com. Take care of everybody and thanks for tuning in. Thanks for joining, Katie. Yeah, thanks, Katie. This was great.