Hello, social media followers, LinkedIn, Facebook, and everyone tuning into our show. Welcome to Beyond the Offer podcast. I am your host, Rosanna Snediker, joined by my co host and friend, Bill Gates. Thank you for tuning in as we tackle the latest trends and challenges in talent acquisition and human resources.
We are pleased to be joined by Michelle Lee today, who is the Senior Director of HR at Signode. Which is a leading and global manufacturer and distributor of packaging systems. Michelle has been a leader in the HR space with several companies, including Siemens and Profile Products as well. Michelle is a talented HR leader who I’ve had the pleasure of knowing since 2019.
We are thrilled to have you join our podcast today, Michelle. Welcome to Beyond the Offer. Thank you so much for that kind introduction. I’m so happy to be here. Yeah, we’re excited to have you. And I guess Bill’s known you since 2019 as well. We both worked with you in the past, whenever you took the job at Profile Products, so excited to have this be full circle today.
Yeah. Welcome to the show. Yeah. So to kick it off, Michelle, we like to ask everyone kind of the first question to start off. Would love just to learn more about your background and how you got into the human resources space. Yeah, and most of the people I know in HR don’t usually go to college to study HR and I can probably say I’m one of those folks as well.
I actually started my career in social services and I found it very rewarding and I enjoyed helping others. But what I found after a couple of years, didn’t feel that challenge that I was looking for. So I started to read some books on human resources, talk to some folks in the field and really had a passion for it.
So I started to study for it, enjoyed it and then 1 employer took a chance on me, gave me all the training I needed and then I was all set off to go, took a first job, a small manufacturing company, about 100 people, and then progressed into some larger organizations after that. So it’s been over 20 years and I have no regrets.
I’m thoroughly enjoying what I’m doing. That’s great. What is it usually? Psychology, I think, Ro, is probably what you say is the most popular or the most likely major for people that get into HR. Yeah, I feel like we hear a lot about psychology or, yeah, social services. A lot of kind of people degrees that then transition into HR.
Yeah, I know they do have an HR education now, but I wonder how many people are actually enrolled in it, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, I feel like somewhat fairly new like that. Even when I was in college, not many schools offered specialized programs in it. So they have a slew of, I mean, even getting masters and organizational development, design.
I mean, there’s so many different- industrial. But, well, kind of transitioning to that too. In regard to your HR experience, some of it’s been with smaller organizations like Profile Product to large organizations like Siemens and your current company Signode.
What’s the differences and similarities when you’re working within smaller versus larger organizations? Yeah, great, great question. And I’m very fortunate to have both the small company, large company experience. With the smaller companies, I found really you’re extremely hands on where you’re, you pretty much get your hands into every area of HR.
So learned a ton, just by being exposed to all areas and sometimes even outside of HR as well, because the companies are smaller. You definitely have a huge impact being in the smaller organizations. The larger organizations, what I find, what I really enjoy is more of the strategic HR work, because you are resourced more effectively, you have a global team, you have a larger HR ecosystem, so that you’re able to really develop the HR strategy and execute.
And then as far as some of the similarities, all companies, no matter what size, the same issues with retention, recruitment, employee engagement, they’re across the board. They may be different, but very similar as far as the same types of employee issues that you deal with. Do you have a preference on one or the other?
Yeah. That’s a great question. It’s interesting because at first I really enjoyed the smaller companies, but now that I’ve worked in the larger companies, I really like being more strategic and just you make a bigger impact with the bigger companies as well. So I’m really enjoying- my position is a great fit for me personally.
Yeah, it’s nice too that you’ve been able to do both because we talked to a lot of candidates that want to transition out of the smaller into bigger or vice versa. And sometimes it can be difficult if that’s what your career path has leaned into. Yeah, and mine’s a little backwards because I think a lot of people start out with the bigger companies and they move to the smaller ones.
So, yeah. Mine’s probably less traditional. Well, you mentioned too when you were talking just about like the global teams that you have with larger companies. I know in your current role, you’re getting to work with global teams. I believe you’ve recently even got to travel globally with your organization.
What have you learned throughout that experience? And what is it like working in HR when you’re getting to work with folks all across the world? I’ll have to tell you, it’s a, it’s fascinating. It’s a great experience. We had a global meeting in Switzerland and some of the folks have never met each other in person and we really learned about each other’s, cultures, what their differences are and work styles.
So, it’s not just related to the HR work, but it’s just how we operate in general. And you just, you learn so much by having a robust, diverse, group of professionals that you work with and you accomplish more because of the diversity and because of the knowledge that they have in their countries, and then making things more standardized and global.
So it’s very exciting. That’s awesome. Did you get to do anything fun while you were in Switzerland? We did. Yeah, we went on a tour. We went to Lucerne, which was a beautiful city and went up the mountains as well. Yeah, I wish I had more time there. It was really great. Yeah. Not a bad place to have work travel to Switzerland.
No, I would go there again if I was asked. Absolutely. Well, and so also a question kind of surrounding employee engagement and retentions. I mean, that’s a big priority right now within obviously many organizations. What do you do in your role with your teams that have
lower turnover and to just overall keep those employees engaged and how does the strategy differ in a remote versus an onsite environment? No, great question. What I’ve found is being more proactive is better. A lot of companies, they wait until somebody leaves. So, you know, having the stay interviews is really a great way to engage, especially your high potentials and figure out what’s working.
What are some areas you can improve upon? And everybody’s honest. They feel it’s a good time to share their views. So I found that really, getting them involved helps engagement as well. I started up an engagement team and it wasn’t just people in HR. It was people throughout the business, that I got involved and they were very excited to feel part of that.
So I think having employees, let their contributions known, having a voice, getting involved, these are the kinds of things you could do. Now, as far as remote we’ve been using teams for quite some time since, you know, everyone’s been adapting to that. So really trying to have more interaction.
So not the one sided meeting. Having celebrations. One thing we did is team building was getting to know you. So everybody filled out a questionnaire about some things about them personally and professionally that we didn’t know. So getting them involved really helps with engagement.
Follow up to that question is, you know, we did a, not that this is going to be about us necessarily, but we’ve tried several things from trivias to, I don’t know, team lunches, et cetera. I mean, do you ever, you get the feedback, it feels a little too forced. I feel like obviously it’s not the same thing.
Say, being in the office and 2 or 3 coworkers say, “Hey, let’s go grab some drinks or something like that after work”. What’s the feedback you get surrounding these team building virtual conversations and meetings? Is it all pretty positive for the most part?
It’s been positive. But you have to be creative about it. Like one thing we did was a cooking class and some people didn’t want to cook in front of their coworkers. Others thought it was great. You know, you saw everybody’s kitchen and their spouses were involved and it was, it was creative.
It was fun. So I think you have to be intentional about it and not just do the ordinary meetings, but try to think what can you do that will engage folks and then getting their ideas. Cause a lot of times they have such good ideas, but people don’t know about them. So that’s another way to get folks engaged and involved.
Absolutely. Yeah, we did. I think there was somebody that did a, the cooking class within Hirewell. They said that they all really liked it too, but yeah. Where to start with the cooking class. But, yeah. In my case, I wasn’t the cook. My husband was the cook, but I was behind the scenes helping,
so. I like it. We all have our strengths, right. Totally. Hopefully got to benefit from the good food that he made. So I sure did. Yeah. Well, that’s a great point. Like surveying people or just talking to people to see what their interest is, because some people like certain things, others don’t. So trying to make something for everyone. But yeah, we’ve done like Bill said, some trivia.
I think one of the teams did like a cake baking contest. We’re just, we’re fully remote. So it’s like trying to find creative ways and things that will engage people is always a challenge, so. Well, in addition to your full time HR job, you are a certified coach and I know you’ve worked with executive coaching since you’ve been doing that for the past few years,
how has that skill set helped you just with your day to day job and how do you lean into that in your nine to five? Yeah, I mean, it’s helped me tremendously because it gave me a framework because I work with executives and all different levels of management all the time. So I’ve learned to really ask more open ended questions.
And sometimes I’m so anxious to give the answer. I’ve veered away from that. So let people come to conclusions and they feel better about it and they learn more. It also makes you a better mentor and supervisor because people can problem solve better. And then having those frameworks for change management, having processes for leadership.
So having just more structure to it helps me become more effective with my job. It’s really been an additional enhancement that I’m truly glad that I made that investment. Absolutely. Yeah. The coaching piece is something I’ve seen pick up, especially with the remote environment.
I’ve seen a lot of folks that specialized in talent management that have lost their jobs and started their own coaching. Whether it’s on the executive level or more training in helping with onboarding and they found a lot of gratification, success, in doing that. That’s definitely exciting to hear. Well, in regard to more of like a current event related, in this past month
we’ve seen one of the most turbulent weeks in the stock market, in 2024. And then along with this upcoming election. Do you see these recent and upcoming events impacting recruiting, talent management, or HR in any way? Yeah, I definitely see it as people really taking a step back.
You know, the business leaders and seeing what positions are really going to impact the business. Maybe there’s some that you could wait on. You don’t have to fill them right away, but just being more strategic and taking a look at the organization. Where is it heading?
What are the positions that are going to make the most impact? Yeah. How is AI going to impact this as well? So just a number of different ways to look at it. So it’s having that time to really analyze the information and seeing what changes will be helpful. And yeah, we only have a few months left right before the New Year begins.
It’s going by quite quickly. Well, New Year and the election will be here before we know it. Definitely. You’d mentioned AI as well, in regard to upcoming, not just events and changes, but have you seen that impact your role currently or in the past in any respect?
I’ve seen it positively impact my role. You can do things a lot quicker, like helping with job descriptions, helping with some administrative tasks. It just makes you a lot more efficient. So you could spend more time partnering with the business. So I know people have mixed feelings about it, but I see it as a positive and only helpful to people.
And you’re going to need HR people. You could try to outsource it, but at the end of the day, people want somebody to talk to. Yeah, no, it’s a good point. Completely. Well, and it can only enhance, make you a better HR professional if you can streamline some of those processes, so. Absolutely.
Yeah, I still like to think I can write a better LinkedIn message than these AI ones that they put together, which are way off the charts and not anywhere close to what I’m trying to say to people, but hopefully they don’t figure that out or our jobs going to become obsolete. Oh, I’m sure it won’t be because you’re dealing with people and they need you.
Yeah, job security at that at least. To kind of stick down just like current events and in recent news, Starbucks, old CEO is going to be stepping down and the company is hiring Chipotle CEO, Brian Nickel, who’s been responsible for really turning the Mexican restaurant around and he’ll be the new CEO in September. With your coaching and just working with CEOs in the past,
what qualities do you think are most important to be a successful CEO? Yeah, what I’ve seen with the successful ones are the ones that have top notch communication skills that can really talk to employees of all different levels. So ones that are really out there being proactive, walking around, trying to get to know the population, seeing what the issues are.
Those are very emotionally intelligent CEOs. And I find that is a great skillset and you always look for in a leader. And then somebody who really has a clear vision on where things are going and can articulate that to everybody, too. I think those are some key attributes as well.
And then also somebody who’s humble, not afraid to admit when they’re wrong or make a mistake. Ego should be put down a little bit. Sometimes people have their egos control them. So if you have a small ego and you’re humble and you admit when you’re wrong, that makes a great CEO as well.
Have you noticed, I’m trying to think of the public versus privately held companies when you have a CEO in publicly traded organizations, obviously, a lot of the leadership can be demanded by the board and the stock price versus privately held. Obviously, usually there’s still a board and whatnot.
Do you see that impacting at all as CEO’s ability in a positive manner? I still think they can lead the same way just that they deal with their board their boss differently, but they could still treat the employee population in the same regard, and that will go a long way and that should increase revenue and make the company more valuable if their people are happy and satisfied.
Absolutely. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I kind of pose that question based on the Boeing news that we’ve been hearing over the last 3 or 4 years, which quality of the actual product is decreased based on kind of the stock price, but, I’m sure there’s some differences. But as you mentioned, as long as you have a good vision of those qualities, you’d mentioned in a CEO, you should be able to lead the same way, no matter if it’s private or public.
Well, another question I had, throughout your career you’ve led just some overall several impressive companies that have had large, hourly non exempt employee populations. A lot of them have had plant facilities or distribution facilities. A lot of the folks on the recruiting side, especially within Hirewell we’ve seen some challenges for a lot of our clients in terms of finding talent at these facilities.
Some of which have been in kind of rural locations, but have you seen over your time in this space, supporting multiple different companies and HR, have you seen a change in what the talent market looks like and hiring hourly, and also managerial positions within these facilities?
Yeah, what I’m finding is it’s interesting that people think that the hourly and the salaried folks are so different, but they’re actually looking for a lot of the same things. They’re looking for a career path too. So, when somebody entry level comes in, they want to know what are the steps, what are the things I need to learn, do I have to go back to school to move up or to transfer into a new skill set.
So, what I find is that having that communication as part of the sale of the position, because if they’re offered the same hourly rate down the street and you can offer them a more solid career path, also offering them top notch benefits too, they are important to people and making sure that they understand what they are.
And then also people do ask about retention. That is, that’s a big topic that comes up on a lot of interviews. I don’t know if you guys are asked that during your interviews as well. I’d say it’s becomes more of a topic whether, you know, it’s Hirewell or another client of ours is
Glassdoor has been a little bit pounded recently and had some negative reviews. Yeah, but retention, especially when we’re filling HR jobs, it’s always a topic, right? I mean, sometimes they want a CHRO to come in and completely overhaul things, but there has been usually I have seen 40, 35, 40 percent retention at kind of the plant hourly, manufacturing distribution facility is right around an average, for a lot of the clients that we’ve worked with. Some is lower, some is higher, but it depends also on how many exempt and non exempt employee populations you’re looking at, how many other plants that are coming? Sometimes there’s a new plant that surfaces within a rural area, which shakes up the talent map in that particular area. And then there’s also just, I think there’s been a shortage of folks that want to work in the plant and distribution facilities. I know Amazon has brought that up numerous times, given the
fact that they continue to add these massive distribution facilities and higher and very high bulk, but, it is very challenging for talent. I knew- it’s interesting you say they’re similar because I do think they are similar because you have to offer the same benefits and things like that to these individuals. But
there is definitely a less willingness to work on an hourly basis that I have seen. I don’t know if it’s something that you’ve typically seen on your end. And I don’t know how much of that is like a generational thing. It’s very hard to kind of quantify or say, but do you have any thoughts on that at all, Michelle?
Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely harder for certain positions because we have a lot of tech positions. Yeah. You know, hourly positions and it seems like some of the newer folks, they don’t understand about all the travel and all the administrative involved. So that’s definitely a challenge.
So providing them different types of opportunities and a path sometimes is a big motivator, but yeah, those positions are definitely tricky and there’s a lot of training involved too. Right, and if it’s in a rural location, you got to put a reloc package together, which we never love to start off with by any means, because it usually ends up bad.
But, it’s interesting. I’ve noticed because we have a tech branch, recruiting branch, technology recruiting branch here and software developers for the last 20 years have been always in such demand, but with AI now, and a lot of it has deleted a lot of jobs.
And I think we’ve started to notice more of the mechanics and the individuals that are on the industrial side that are doing things with their hands are becoming much more, there aren’t as many folks that have specialized in that practice similarly to what we did back in the early kind of 2000s, where there weren’t a lot of folks that had the coding abilities as well.
So it’s kind of like clothing in some ways that it’s kind of goes through waves here. But I think that’s something that we’ve definitely noticed as a bit of a trend. Yeah, so we’ve been really leveraging our employee referral program, really trying to get folks excited about working here and showing them the difference between some of the other competitors.
Yeah, I was going to ask, what other creative ways do you recruit at the plant level? So the referral program and getting folks to refer friends, anything else that comes to mind? Yeah, and then we’re going to some of the technical schools, were trying to leverage some of the technical people as well.
And then, utilizing LinkedIn even though folks may not look there, other people may know people. So just sharing, commenting, liking, just trying to get more awareness out there, but it’s more about brand recognition and letting people know. And the one thing we want to do in the future is take a look at the trucks, can we put on like a QR code to the career site so that people can find us right away.
So just trying to think out of the box here. I like that. That’s creative. Definitely. Yeah, I’ve heard some folks going after local high schools, universities that have industrial programs, et cetera. As you mentioned, it all depends a bit on the position, but there needs to be some sort of talent recruiting strategy.
If there’s a gap in terms of finding people and the positions are open for a little bit too long, but once you have that down, then the branding also goes along with it as well. But, there’s ups and downs on these things based on what the market, the job market looks like, et cetera.
So. Absolutely. Well, our last question, we like to jump into our unfiltered section of the podcast. So it’s our unfiltered HR question. That’s just like a little less formal. Not as, HR focused and it can be sometimes maybe a little bit more uncomfortable of a question, but wanted to ask you if you were not in HR or if say, sounds like you’re not going anywhere.
You love HR, but if you were looking to make a career change or a shift, what would you transition into and how do you feel like you’re 20 years plus in the HR space, the skills that you’ve learned, how those would help kind of transfer over into a new career path? Well, the 1 thing I noticed is there’s some a gap and when you go to college, nobody ever teaches you how to market yourself, how to find a job.
So if I had the opportunity, and I wasn’t in HR, I would definitely want to be, professor that would teach young people really how to market themselves, how to find jobs. What are some of the skills that you need in the workplace? Because I feel that that’s never been taught.
People learn the hard way. So it would be nice to have that education and then potentially teaching like a leadership management type of courses as well, because I believe that will go such a long way by having different classes that maybe that population, that age group would never have before.
Yeah. Well, it kind of goes hand in hand with like the coaching stuff you’ve done. So you kind of already tapped into that a little bit. I love that too, about teaching kids. And I think that can even start at the high school level. Like I think about, some kids that don’t want to go to a four year school or go to college.
It’s like you graduate high school or college and it’s all academic. And then it’s like, here’s the real world, figure things out. Even you see the jokes about like, they should teach us how to do our taxes versus teach us, you know, algebra and it’s like, there is some truth to that. Yeah, like maybe a practical business class just so that people know how to operate, right?
Right. What does it look like transitioning from school to a real workplace? Well, it’s like they do now a lot of the NFL and NBA players that had managed their money poorly. I mean, they already putting those classes together on financial advising as much as they can
so they don’t get their first paycheck, blow it through on a car or house or whatever and so they can get set up for life long term. That’s they need to approach that definitely on the same respect and educating a lot of these kids for sure, because, how many people go into high school and college and know exactly what they want to do.
Outside of the rare norms that are doctors and lawyers, et cetera. But even those honestly get through about two, three years of med school or law school and they’re like, “Oh, I hate this. I don’t want to do this”. Right? But anyway. Well, we appreciate the time. That is all the time we have for today.
Thanks for tuning in to this week’s episode. Today we met with Michelle Lee and discussed her career working with global teams, how to partner with the CEO on HR strategy, how to attract and retain hourly employees and much more. We will be back again with you all next month with a new special guest.
Quick reminder on how you can support our Beyond the Offer podcast. You can find all of the content on Hirewell’s social media platform, which you can find through Hirewell.com. Take care everyone, and thanks for tuning in. Thanks, Michelle. Yeah, thanks, Michelle.
