Beyond Talent: Transforming HR and Recruiting with Newcastle Investors

Hello, social media followers, LinkedIn, Facebook, and everyone tuning in to our show. Welcome to the Beyond the Offer podcast. I’m your host, Rosanna Snedeker, joined by my co host and friend, Bill Gates. Thank you for tuning in as we tackle the latest trends and challenges in talent acquisition and human resources.

We are very excited for our very first episode with two guests on the podcast. Today, we are meeting with Mark Tumiel and JC Rivera from Newcastle Investors, a Chicago based real estate firm. Mark is the SVP of human resources and JC is the head of talent acquisition. They’ve worked at impressive companies like Roti, Orbitz, and Cushman & Wakefield throughout their careers.

We’re very excited to have both of you on the podcast and welcome to Beyond the Offer. Thank you. for having us. Guys. How are you guys doing? Good. Good. Well, we jump in with, you know, a first question that we ask all of our guests. We love just to hear about your backgrounds and how both of you got into HR and recruiting.

So Mark, we’ll let you kick it off. Sure. Yeah. And thanks for having us here. Um., you know, it’s a short week with Thanksgiving here, but, uh, looking forward to the conversation. Um, yeah, so, uh, I started out in HR, um, actually through school. So I actually have a degree in. Um, business and and H. R. So I’m one of the kind of unique ones.

I think that kind of came in through, you know, My academics and, uh, after I, uh, graduated from the university of, um, Buffalo, um, moved to Chicago, um, as a 21-year-old looking for a fun big city to, to play in and, and work in, and, um, found a job in it recruiting. At that time it was 1999, so it was like the tech boom happening and uh, Chicago was a great spot to come to.

And I became a headhunter with a third party search firm for about a year and a half. And then after that, I found my first corporate role with ComEd as a campus recruiter and started my HR generalist kind of activities at ComEd. Rowan, I can relate to the third party, the third party IT recruiting, that’s pretty personal, actually, so.

Yep, 21 coming to Chicago, IT recruiting is where we both started as well, so. It was, yeah, it was definitely a hot spot. Unfortunately, I was not a great salesperson, so I didn’t. Um, like, you know, make a ton of money, but, uh, I know others did. And, um, it was, it was fun. It was a fun community to be a part of.

Cause the recruiters there, we just had a really good time working together and it was a grind. Yeah, sure. A lot of our listeners can relate to as well that have been on the it third party side too. They either have probably PTSD and horror stories or they, uh, it was their first job into recruiting where they’ve been for a while, but that’s great.

J J C. What about you? Yeah, that’s amazing. Uh, well, thank you guys for having me. Um, and, uh, yeah, no, I have a unique background. I worked quite a few different things in a few different capacities before recruiting. Um, I’ve done everything from sales to working at a fintech company. Um, I was actually laid off from that fintech company right before I started recruiting.

And I was just trying to figure out what I what I was going to do next. And My wife actually worked for a global real estate firm. She was working with staffing agencies. And, um, I think through one of her conversations, you know, she, she asked, Hey, are you guys hiring? And of course they were at the time.

And it was a, it was a finance and accounting firm. Um, uh, recruiting big four auditors out of the big four into smaller regional firms. Um, so that was my first kind of crack at recruiting. And there’s really what I call like a crash course, right? Like, uh, like Mark said, this is where you learn a ton. You learn a lot of, you know, you learn, you learn what you’re made out of, um, I think is, is what, what I got out of it.

Um,. So, you know, resilience, negotiations, all that good stuff. Um, but it was a fun, you know, year and a half, I think. Is what I, what, uh, how long I was there. Um, then I landed my first job at Cushman at Wakefield. Um, shout out to Danielle Dutcher, gave me my first shot, and then so seven years later here I am, but um, yeah, no, it’s a, it’s been a fun, it’s been a fun ride.

I love it. It’s funny, I know Danielle as well, JC. Yeah, amazing. Full circle there. Yeah, I mean I think starting out on the agency side you learn so much so quickly and it’s great for us that you both understand what that world is, so you can kind of relate to what Bill and I do, so. Yeah. Mark. Mark, tell us a little bit more about Newcastle and, you know, Newcastle investors type of real estate you focus on, et cetera.

Sure, yeah. Newcastle Investors is a, we’re a real estate and dev development firm in Chicago. Um, so we, on the retail, so we’re, we’re basically retail and the multifamily. On the retail side, we have probably about 60 properties with about 160 tenants. So our focus has been boutique tenants. Um, so we do, um, we’re agnostic with, um, kind of industry, but, you know, everything from restauranteurs to really great consignment shops.

Um throughout the city. Um, so if you’re walking through Andersonville or the Gold Coast area, a lot of those spaces we own the buildings and then our tenants are, are, um, are the people that reside in those as their, for their businesses are our tenants. So we manage those properties. And then on the multifamily side, we go out to the community as reside living.

So we have, uh, probably about, um, 40 buildings, um, across Chicago, uh, heavy concentration in Lakeview, uh, um, West Loop, Gold Coast, uh, and, um, kind of that, that uptown area for, uh, providing great, uh, living experiences for our residents. So we probably have about 3, 500 people that reside in our buildings. A couple things that are unique about us, we’re owned and operated and we’re long term investors.

So we don’t just buy buildings and outsource them or try to resell them. We literally are long term investors. We want these properties in our portfolio. And because of that, our employee base is really diverse. We have both, um, kind of field and operation, field and kind of a corporate group of employees that service these buildings.

And again, as long term investors, we’re here to create an amazing like living experience for the residents. So we have a concierge model. So regardless of what building you live in, you can have a 24 by 7 concierge contact to help you with issues or situations that are happening or or the the, you know, things that are going on in the the the area or the city during the weekend that they can help connect, um, connect you with.

And, uh, just providing a great amenity space. So a lot of our properties have gyms and offer a lot of discounts within the community areas as well. So we have a really, um, if you live in one of our buildings, you have a really great experience being part of, um, Chicago. Is there plans or is there any properties outside of Chicago or their growth plans to, to eventually, you know, have properties, um, outside the Chicago area?

Yep. Not, not for Newcastle investors. So the other, um, aspect of our business, we’re actually institutionally based or institutionally funded. So our capital comes from Washington state pension fund. Oh, so the pension fund has a portfolio of other REOCs or real real estate investment companies that they.

They are part of like the pie of the pension. So we are specific for Chicago or strategy, Chicago. We love Chicago. Uh, that’s why I joined that. Cause it’s so cool to be able to be in a business that’s literally in Chicago and JC and I can run around to our portfolio and literally see the entire buildings and our entire teams in about like a day, if we need it to get in the car and go, um, but the, the, the, uh, pension has a larger footprint and has.

Um, industrial and, um, commercial and real estate. So we’re part of the bigger family and, um, you know, that also provides us a great capital base to, uh, acquire and develop our, our, our, our business. Is that under a different like Newcastle investors umbrella, um, or out of your purview for like the commercial and industrial focus?

Yeah, it’s out of our umbrella, but it’s part of the PEC in Washington State pension umbrella. So, um, you know, it provides not only, you know, the capital and the partnership and learnings in these other industries. We get together twice a year as a a leadership team to talk about challenges within the industry.

Um, and um, how how our business is doing compared to the others and share best practices and so forth. And it’s also great just to be a part of and I think JC you can contest to this as you you hire Um, you know, we’re not working for one individual wealthy person. We’re we’re working for a pension fund So the people in Washington state that retire that are teachers or firefighters That’s our money that’s going back into that pension is paying for them to be able to have a living after their retirement piece.

So it’s, it’s a, it’s a kind of a, uh, a very, um, full circle perspective of just making sure that we’re, we’re, um, putting our time and energy and our capital into the right, you know, good, great things versus, uh, just wealth into someone’s family. Well, I’m sure it diversifies your guys, the portfolio and the pension fund for them as well.

Right? I imagine COVID for, for example, I’m sure hit everyone probably knows a lot of the office markets and more on the commercial side of things. And, you know, uh, which I’m sure it’s probably affected the, the residential multifamily side too, where, you know, you’ve been able to maybe expand that space too.

So, yeah, residential has been doing much better just because, you know, with the market for the housing. You know, the interest rates and everything. And so it’s actually a benefit to our company, um, having the, you know, um, backing with a pension, um, provides a stability and consistency. So even though we’re, you know, we’re, we’re riding the market and, and understanding that we’re also, you know, just conservative just as everybody is to say how, how fast or how slow do we want to go so we can step into things in the right way.

It’s been great to have a really professional backing and the capital around us to do that without being in a different situation where we have to make fast decisions that might detract us in a different way that we wouldn’t want to. Interesting. Are there residential trends in the, in this space within like the residential real estate market that, you know, either of you guys have kind of been seeing within your guys’s roles, just within the last, you know, year, for that matter.

Um, yeah, definitely. I mean, on the residential side and how the markets shifted. I mean, we, like I said, we are, our occupancy has been great. We, you know, West Loop has always been booming. It’s getting a little flatter now, but we have a lot of properties out in that area. And, you know, from getting out of COVID and concessions and, uh, more on the tenant side and, you know, uh, concessions on the residential side too, we, we came out of that pretty fast and we’re able to, um, are, you know, tracking to better than what we were at pre pandemic.

And continue to see that improve. Um, you know, I think, uh, Chicago is a great city to live in and, and people, we have a great area for universities to be coming into as, you know, people leaving school and trying to finding their first apartments and jobs. Chicago is a really big, um, uh, piece of the pie for that.

And we’ve, we’ve seen that happen and impact our financials in a positive way. That’s great. Yeah, I’ve seen your, uh, logo, Newcastle, on some buildings throughout the city, so the branding was definitely there as well. And you said some of your employees live in your buildings as well, right? Yeah, yep, we have probably have, um, Um, you know, we have 150 employees, um, across the, the, the, the company, we have about nine offices throughout the city.

So some of our employees sit within the buildings as property managers. Um, yeah, and they go through that experience, not just on the maintenance side to service the buildings, but we have a number of people we offer a 25 percent discount for employees to come in. So if you want a 25 percent discount on for monthly rents.

The opportunity to get, get into that and a lot of people take advantage of that. Yeah, we, uh, it’s a huge perk. I was gonna say, we, we call one of the, one of the properties, the reside dorm, , that story, I, I, I don’t dunno how, how many employees we have there, but it’s quite a bit with their families and all that good stuff.

So they’ve also like created like their own little community mm-hmm. Up in that, in that, in that property, which is nice. Oh, that’s great. Um, well, like we said in the intro, this is the first time we’ve had two guests on the podcast, which we’re super excited about. So we’d love to hear just kind of the dynamic of how you both work together at Newcastle with HR and TA.

I know being a smaller team there, um, walk us through that and what that partnership looks like between the two of you. Yeah, I can, I can start with that. Um, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely much different than, than what I’ve experienced in the past. Um, you know, Mark is, Mark is, uh, a very hands off kind of leader in the sense that, you know, he wants you to kind of own your, your realm, if, if you will.

Um, you know, he’s definitely going to be somebody who’s going to, you know, kind of provide the bigger picture of what we want to accomplish. And it’s kind of us, it’s up to us to kind of figure out how, how we go about it. Um, it’s, it’s unique in the sense that, you know, I’m, I’m very close to, you know, what’s happening on the employee relations side, performance side.

Um, so I kind of know, you know, um, you know, what we need to plan for, you know, whether it’s specific roles that we need to, you know, kind of pipeline or, uh, understand how the business is kind of, is going to shift over the next few years. I get, I get much, I get much closer here than I, I think I ever have, um, to that side of the business.

Um, but also, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s a very collaborative environment. I think, um, we’ve got a director of learning and development on our team, HR generalist and then our office management kind of falls under us as well. Um, so our reach is pretty wide, which is really nice. Um, and that’s, I think that’s a benefit of kind of being a small agile team, uh, where everyone can kind of get their hands into different parts of the business, but.

Um, yeah, no, it’s fun. I think, I think it’s, um, you know, we, we work hard, play hard, you know, that’s like, that’s a cliche. Everyone wants to share, but I think it’s truly the case for our team. Um, but yeah, it’s exciting. And I’m excited to see what we do over the next few years. Great. Yeah, we, and we have a, yeah, like, as JC said, our team, you know, you know, we’re, we’re small, but mighty.

Um, you know, I, my philosophy has always been, I’ve been in businesses where I had recruiting kind of on the side and outside of the HR umbrella. And my philosophy for that is always to bring it underneath an HR element because you always think of, you know, think of an employee life cycle, right? It starts with attracting, you know, hiring, onboarding, promoting, having them leave, having them come back into the business.

And, you know, I think, um, recruiting is, um, you know, feels a little siloed when I’ve seen it in businesses separate. And, you know, I’ve been through a lot of companies that have, you know, aggressive mergers and acquisitions happening. So as I, Always brought in acquisitions into my business has always brought recruiting underneath that fold and it’s just benefited from us.

I think, um, you know, I’ve seen in my past just from a recruiter’s perspective is like, you know, the, you know, the career progression of where somebody wants to go on that is can go a lot of different ways. And when you have. You know, full talent underneath you. Um, and have somebody, when we hired JC, I didn’t have a recruiter.

Um, I had, um, recruiting as part of like a generalist role. And I needed somebody to come in and wake up every morning and think about attracting and hiring and our employment brand and getting out there like every day, all day, and that’s all I needed someone to do. Cause we didn’t have that. And I think that that by itself is such a big job.

And then adding into, you know, how do you promote and develop and, um, Retain our people is J. C. Is a part of those conversations with my with the rest of my team and us trying to figure that that, you know, magic sauce out to keep to keep our great employees and deal with like the market as it shifts. It is always interesting when you see those, you know, decentralized recruiting groups and when I’ve typically seen it with clients that we’ve worked with and done placements, it’s usually in like a very specialized area like sales or, you know, um, there could be one like in healthcare if it’s like for nurses or something like that, but.

It does become a bit more fragmented and in that sense to when it’s decentralized out of HR, right? Because they kind of feel like their own silo and you know, even though it’s, it’s hard, right? When it’s a part of the whole retention and acquisition process and you have it out outside of the purview, you know, it’s harder for you folks on the HR side to corral what’s going on from a hiring perspective.

So communication clearly is important, but switching gears a bit more kind of to the recruiting side. JC, how do you manage like recruiting efforts? You know, at the corporate level and like for the, for the properties, I mean, did they, how, how do they defer and how do you like approach recruiting, you know, uh, in, in corporate fashion versus field?

Yeah, that’s a great question. I think from my perspective, there isn’t, there isn’t a huge difference in terms of how we approach it. I think, you know, the, the, the good thing is that we are, we, we consider ourselves one company, um, operating under two different brands. And so, you know, our focus is that is always going to be, you know, finding the best people for the role.

Right. And, um, whether that’s an analyst or a, uh, property manager, um, I think those are, we’re always going to, it’s always going to come down to finding the best person. You know, we do a few different things, maybe from like a assessment standpoint, like you wouldn’t. You wouldn’t interview an analyst the same way you would a leasing consultant.

Um, but I think the way we manage the roles and manage the managers supporting those roles, um, is very similar. We still have the same types of conversations and, you know, like, for example, if it comes down to, hey, I can’t decide between, you know, two great candidates. It’s like, which one, which one is going to hit the ground running faster?

You know, who’s going to, who’s going to, who are you going to spend. The least amount of time trying to ramp up, you know, if, if you have, if you have a really fast paced team. Um, so I think the conversations are very similar that there, there aren’t too many differences, um, in terms of like, uh, process evaluation maybe is a little bit different and we’re, we’re going to go into 2025, really focus on that too.

Um, and, uh, and, and trying to understand, you know, what, what drives high performance and how do we translate that to. Any type of role that we’re working on. Yeah, I hope that gives you a good overview. Yeah, what are their roles like? Talk to me a little bit about kind of the roles that you guys do fill for a lot of our listeners out there.

You know, what are kind of some of the titles of those positions? Yeah, so it ranges anywhere from on the property side, leasing consultants, property managers, maintenance, engineering, technicians. Uh, on the corporate side, you’ve got anything from an analyst to a marketing specialist, um, uh, finance and accounting, um, uh, uh, asset management, which is a very interesting group.

Uh, that’s really where the analysts kind of fall under. We’ve got a really cool, like rotational program that, um, analysts kind of go through. They they oversee a little bit of acquisitions, uh, asset management, finance and accounting. Um, and that’s the, I think that’s the benefit of like, Coming into a small firm like this.

Well, not, I don’t want to say small in the sense of like, uh, reach, but I think, you know, if you’re a leasing consultant, you still can get involved with some of the things property managers are doing, or, um, you know, you can connect with your marketing teams. We do quarterly meetings where the entire company gets together.

Um, and that’s where everyone kind of networks and understands who’s who and, um, Um, so yeah, I think the, the, the, the variety of roles here is really great. But I think, um, the biggest thing that I would, that I always, I always tell my candidates is that, you know, you can start as a leasing consultant, but that’s not where you have to kind of end your career.

You can go kind of anywhere within the business. Um, and hopefully as we grow, you know, maybe over the next five years or so, there’s new opportunities for, for folks to, um, Yeah, it’s a, it’s a variety. Uh, but again, it’s, uh, it’s very, we’re, we’re all focused on one goal. It’s delivering the highest level of experience to our, to our residents.

So it all kind of ties together. Of those roles, is there like one or two that, you know, are some of the toughest to, to fill that, you know, you, when you get that, uh, the new wreck or job on your plate, there’s a bit of a, a groan or ? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I’ll definitely talk about the maintenance and engineering side.

I think, you know, back from my time at Cushman, you know, I used to work 40 to 50 roles at a time, you know, in my first couple of years at Cushman, and they were all maintenance and engineering. And it was it was the same common issue across the board. It’s, you know, you’ve got more people leaving the those trades than going into them.

So the pipeline or the pool of candidates is very small. Um, and then you’ve got You know, um, you’ve got the challenge of of, of actually getting, getting people on site who are gonna be dedicated to, to the vision of, of your company. Um, you know, a lot of, a lot of ’em are either switching because they want an, an extra dollar or two an hour or whatever the case is.

But here, you know, it’s, we’re very intentional about what we hire. I think every hire really matters here. Um, so that kind of adds another layer of, uh, I think not necessarily complication, but just a nuance in our business, but yeah, maintenance and engineering, I’m sure everyone would agree who’s in the property or even manufacturing space.

Like that’s, those are, those are really tough roles to fill. Yeah, we’ve talked about that before on our podcast before with other HR leaders, and, you know, it’s especially that come from more of a manufacturing sector. It’s kind of the same. I’ve related it to the problem we dealt with in, like, you know, from 2007 to 2010 of, like, technology engineers.

There’s a huge shortage of developers and, you know, our education system didn’t really have those in place. Now, there tends to be a much higher shortage now in the, mechanical space because the younger generations, it sounds like don’t, there’s just a shortage in talent of folks that are wanting to work with their hands and go into actually a plant facility or one of your guys places to fix an HVAC or whatever it may be.

Um, so hopefully, you know, hopefully that talent gap, I mean, gradually it will, right? I mean, eventually when a job obviously becomes in more demand, you know, that typically pays more, but then more people usually, you know, Brad gravitate towards. Have you started to see that during your guys’s two, three years there?

I think what’s interesting is that, um, and, and maybe this happened around like 2008 when the market crashed 2007, 2008, but, um, I think what happens is when, when there’s mass layoffs or a lot of uncertainty in the world and people are kind of like figuring out what’s next for them. Um, sometimes it forces them into these types of like trades.

And so I think, I think I don’t, don’t quote me on this, but I think I saw a statistic recently, uh, where, uh, during this time, you’re seeing like a, like a 7 percent increase in enrollment and those types of skilled trade schools. So. I mean, we may not see the impacts of that maybe until like three or four years from now when, you know, more of them start to hit the market.

Um, but yeah, that’s an interesting kind of fact to dive into a little bit when the, when the market’s down, that’s that tends to push people into those types of trades or, you know, shorter like certification type of courses. Um, maybe it’s different in today’s world where you can get a, you know, a coding degree in or coding certification in like six months.

Um, But I think, you know, not everyone, not everyone wants to be a, um, a cybersecurity expert or, or data analysts. Like people want to work with their hands. Um, so it’s about making, making these opportunities more visible. Like we’ve done that with us. We’ve done day in the life videos where we highlight, you know, maintenance and engineering.

Um, and the, the vision there was to really show off what it’s like to work as a maintenance tech or an engineer. Um, and so I think we really kind of hit, hit, hit it off the park with those videos, because uh, we put them on our job descriptions, we, uh, put them in the links when we send the candidates, uh, when we send candidates like the scheduling, uh, interview scheduling links, um, and so they get a really good view in terms of what to expect, um, into these roles.

So it takes a little bit more effort, I think, um, and maybe more time to kind of comb through a lot of resumes, but, um, I think, I think we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re approaching it the right way. Yeah, and that’s unique because I know when we’ve recruited for you, even at the corporate level, sending those videos, candidates have been really impressed by that and just getting a glimpse into like what it actually looks like hearing from the employees.

Not every organization is doing that. We can definitely attest to that. JC’s done a great job at like a different way to a recruit, you know, these days as a market student. Kind of a little bit quieter a little bit, especially in our industry. We just haven’t seen a lot of movement in the past two years.

So there’s almost like a different approach you do as you switch your recruiting gears on, you know, when, when the market is, you know, when a lot of people are moving around versus when they’re not. And, you know, I think, you know, getting into the communities and really getting just to know that the, the network that we have.

So we, Cultivate this like relationship with people before we, we hire. And I know you guys know that’s, that’s a big key to it too. Um, so when you’re, you might not be ready today, but you might be ready tomorrow. And, you know, JC, I mean, he’s done a great job bringing technology in. We use culture index, um, to help evaluate, um, uh, a little bit how the brain works as we evaluate, you know, get to know people and understand how that works is a little bit of part of the evaluation process.

But, um, yeah, we have like, we have a very specialized, um, we have specialized roles and we’re pretty diverse. So I think even if you’re talking about like that asset manager role, which is so hard to find, and the maintenance one that is so hard to find, and they’re very different kind of worlds. Um, you know, the, the same thing goes to the fact of like, just making sure we’re, we’re bringing a different recruiting approach into it because we know, you know, and JC knows, um.

Probably every asset manager within the within the 50 mile radius from our offices so we can continue to keep them updated with what’s going on at Newcastle so when we are ready to pop. Somebody in, uh, we can do that and find the best solution with that. And, um, yeah, and you know, you know, we’ll see what tomorrow brings.

Right. My, I have a nephew that’s thinking about trade school today versus a four year degree, which it was just different. You know, my family is like, what are you talking about? It was like, like, of course I would do this. Why wouldn’t I make as much money as you do when you get out of a four year degree program these days, as it seems to be shifting into, to these other trades, whether it’s plumbing or whatnot.

Yeah, those classes are being offered in high school more and more, and people are just getting more interested in them than years ago. So, yeah, I think referrals have also been a really, uh, uh, sorry, referrals have been a really strong, um, source for us to, to get new candidates in, especially around the maintenance and engineering roles.

Um, yeah, it’s, it’s, you know, there’s times there’s, there’s times throughout the year if it’s, if it’s really tough or we’ve had a role that’s been open for a while or a team, a team really needs help. We’ll, kind of increase that referral bonus a little bit, uh, just to kind of give, you know, higher incentive.

And I’m very visible with the, the, the, reside group, um, especially at the quarterly meetings. Um, I always announce and, and, you know, suggest referrals and I, I always tell people like, don’t worry about. You know, the interviews and the evaluations. Like if you meet an Uber driver who, you know, gave you an awesome ride home, like, you know, grab their information and yeah.

And, uh, let ’em know that we’re always hiring and, um, if you go to a restaurant and you get great service, like those are the types of people that we want. And so just about being visible and just kind of creating that awareness within the, the group so that it gets people excited to, to, to refer people, um, and take the pressure off of them having to worry about like

whether that person is going to work out or not. Like we don’t hold anyone against, you know, bringing someone in who just didn’t work out. Um, so yeah, it’s been it’s been a good, a good avenue for new candidates. Yeah, and you kind of touched on a few things for our next question, but just, you know, building from the ground up, Newcastle being a smaller organization, you said small but mighty, you both have had the opportunity to kind of come in and build from the ground up, create new processes, implement new things.

What has worked? What have you learned over the past few years? I mean, you mentioned the referrals, the videos, you know, implementing the cultural index, anything else to kind of touch on there that has really worked out really well that you have been able to come in and kind of create from scratch? Mark, you’ve been, you’ve been here a little bit longer than me.

So, yeah, well, um, I would say, I mean, like, yeah, I mean, I think just, um, building out the technology and, uh, really getting the engine to be created to make recruiting happen is a big deal. I, um, you know, as I walked into the business, it’s been probably about a little bit over three years now. Um, you know, I was brought in to kind of restructure the function and, you know, I think

part of it was taking like our HR function to be less tactical and more strategic and really being a part of the business and a part of the operations. And, um, so when I walked in, that, that was, that was my goal. And, you know, part of it was hiring JC and creating a dedicated person to think every day about that attracting and onboarding process.

And then also being a part of, you know, the discussions around developing our employees and promoting them. I think, um, you know, as you know, you think about going from tactical to strategic. Uh, recruiting is not just Getting a rec and filling it. It is like you’re in the business, you’re talking with the teams, you’re building that relationship.

And then that is just so crucial in every aspect to be, um, seen as a, a key partner to help the business succeed. Cause we’re all here to make a business great and to make, you know, usually it boils down to what we have at Newcastle. It’s about great services to our tenants and residents. Like we want our residents to walk out and be like, wow, I just had this amazing living experience in this amazing building.

And I’m ready to leave and create a family and go out to the suburbs. Like it’s amazing. Um, and JC is a part of those conversations with the teams just to make sure, you know, we understand the pain points, the issues, and we’re all people centric businesses, right? Everything boils down to what people are doing around those.

And, um, you know, I think that, uh, you have to be really, ingrained and in the business to do that. And that’s how I set up my team and the part of the, how, you know, how I operate in general and my team operates. Um, so aside from the technology and the engine behind it, just truly that partnership, and then, yeah, you make it creative and you make it fun and you make it sexy and you make the employment brand amazing and, and it comes, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that’s, uh, you hit it. I mean, especially like the, like, like the making it sexy part. Like that’s like, if I’m going to do anything, I want it to be fun. I want it to be exciting. I want it to be fresh. Like, um, you know, everything from, you know, the way we write job descriptions all the way through the, the, the, the candidate experience, you know, getting them through the process as quickly and as seamlessly as possible.

And, um, you know, giving them the feedback as soon as they, as soon as they interview and just let them and just kind of have that touching base. Um, but just to answer your question about like, you know, one of the, what are some of the things you learn, um, when you’re building something new, this was, this was the first time I’ve, I’ve done something like this where, um, we’re kind of starting from the beginning.

There was a little bit of a foundation, I think, before we started, which was nice. Um, But I think what I had to learn quickly was that you have to make, you have to make great hires, you know, before you make any massive changes to like, you know, ATS or bring in new technology or change processes, like you just have to make some really good hires first, get some, you know, um, I guess some respect from the business so that they understand that, you know, you know what you’re doing, uh, from a recruiting perspective, and then you can start to make suggestions on, on, on processes and, um, the way we approach hiring.

But yeah, I think. you know, that’s one of the biggest things that I learned is you have to take your time, understand the business. It helped that I came from the real estate world before, and it’s really what I’m passionate about. Um, so it kind of gives me like that extra push to do, to do what I do. Um, but you know, Mark’s been great.

You know, I, like I said, I remember when he interviewed, he was like, this is what I need. This is how I, this is, he didn’t say this is how I want it done. He said, um, this is what I need. And it’s up to you to figure it out. Um, in, in other words, um, but, but it was, it was great because I’m, I’m very creative and, you know, kind of, um, uh, self starting from that perspective.

Um, and I think right now, like we’re focusing on, you know, how do we stay active when it’s a little bit slower? Um, you know, I think he and I worked very similarly in the sense that, um, we kind of need the pressure to, to, you know, to produce really good work. Um, so now it’s like, okay, how do we keep the pressure on ourselves?

Um, whereas the business is not the one that’s putting pressure on us. So, uh, it’s an interesting fun, an interesting ride. If you guys have guys have any suggestions on how to, uh, on how to, how to navigate that, that’d be great. Well, another kind of point you guys have both referenced, like a lot of business, like changes and being aligned with the business.

I know Newcastle’s gone through a variety of business changes over the past few years, and actually even a rebrand, um, I believe, but like, how does HR communicate those changes and. You know, what kind of role do you play, you know, in those rebranding and larger business decisions and changes? Yeah, so I’ll take that and , you know, I think we had a soft rebrand So we we did it we did a slight name change more at the corporate level.

We had our ceo transitioned out last year from a founder and um ceo who um You know Decided to do something different. So we we um transitioned him last year You And, um, you know, still a big piece of the business and the history of it. And the new leadership team is like fully engaged and moving it forward.

Um, you know, my role and, and, and JC is a part of this as well as, you know, really, I mean, we’re part of the team to make all these decisions, right? So, so, uh, you know, my, my team has integrated, like I was saying, as, as anything, uh, as any other function of the area. And I think we spearhead, um, with my head of marketing and, uh, that team and our branding, um, piece of like the communication strategy around that, because, you know, from, from my angle and how we operate at Newcastle, um, investors is transparency and, um, you know, upfront honesty is what we’re doing and how we’re doing it.

And if there are changes in the business, we’re explaining the reasons of why and how, and, um, supporting the teams as we go through any, any slight changes with our strategy. So. Um, you know, we’re, um, yeah, like, it’s, like, we’re the, we’re the first, first, first, first call, if you will, you know, to kind of figure, help figure it out as a team and then really, um, make sure, uh, you know, everyone understands kind of a path that we can explain very clearly and still keep them really, you know,

you know, motivated, engaged within their current role and excited about what this business is doing, which, um, I think you can probably hear from both of us. We love our roles. We love our business. We love what we do and what we produce for the Chicago residents and tenants that we support. And. You know, part of that is, you know, even if the business shifts, even if the market’s a little bit slower, or there’s a little bit of a strategy change here or there, um, our jobs, uh, are, uh, to keep the teams really excited about what they do and the opportunity that they have, and that keeps the promotion cycle going, and we, we, we, we’ve done a lot more internal, you know, promotions, JC, I would think this year than we have last year and this year, you know, done a lot of, um, like more, um, you know, Um, stretch roles, if you will, and promotions into positions, um, versus just going outside because we want to really keep these great, uh, employees that we have to keep moving them up.

And, you know, with, uh, We’re diverse, not only by role, but by, um, uh, age demographics as well. So we understand the dynamics of, you know, Gen G, millennial, Gen X, and we, we’re very in tune with that. So as we do shifts in the business, making sure that we’re, um, addressing those groups and giving people the opportunity, the platforms that they need, and it’s been great.

We probably promoted, I would say, without looking at specific percentages, but upwards of 20 percent of our business within the past year and a half, if not more. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, I think you hit it on the, you know, two things, the transparency, and then even when things are slow, keeping your employees engaged, excited.

And then if you can do internal promotions, I mean, that goes a ton in a slower market. Um, JC, quick question for you. And it’s a little bit more kind of just like how you manage the personal ups and downs of recruiting. We talked to so many recruiters and the past few years have been the highs of highs, the lows of lows.

Being in this space for a while. How do you manage the ups and downs and just kind of try to stay as even as possible when it is such a wild ride. Oh, that’s a, that’s a great question. yeah, I, I think I laugh because it’s like, you know, I think from a, from, from, from the outside looking in, you know, recruiting is such, such a, such a like high energy, you know, very, uh, chipper type of role.

Uh, and I, and I think people look at us as like the, the ones who are always excited about everything that we’re doing. And, you know, and the truth is, is that, you know, we see everything behind the scenes, right? We see everything behind the scenes. We, we also, you know, have faced like a really crazy past five years without, without saying some of the, some of the buzzwords around that.

Um, but yeah, no, I think, you know, for me, you know, I, I hit a wall at, back in like 2021. Right before I came to Newcastle, actually, um, I, I went off to a, to a different organization in a very different industry and I realized that it wasn’t for me. Like it was, it was also the beginning of the great resignation, which it was, uh, it was a retail company.

Um, so 90 percent of our stores were completely understaffed. Like I would get calls from people, um, I would get calls from people saying, Hey, I can’t open my store because I have no employees. Like, what do I do? And as we both know, you can’t just like post a job and have interviews the same day, especially when you walk through a mall and most of the stores were in malls.

Um, you would, you would walk through those malls and every single, every single store had a now hiring sign. And so, yeah, I think it was a, it was a perfect combination of just like high stress, high high anxiety type of en environment. And so, um, you know, I had to take, I had to take, take a step back at that point and, and really assess like what I, what I really wanted.

Um, you know, I hit a wall and, and when I say I hit a wall, like I, you know, drum me to a panic attack, that sort of thing. Like that’s, that’s from a, from like a mental health perspective. Um, that’s when I fully realized that like, I can’t. I can’t continue like this if I want to do this for the rest of my career.

Um, and so, you know, I had to dive into, you know, therapy and all types of, uh, um, you know, support, support, I guess, support, uh, activities, you know, whether it’s like just being honest with, you know, that my family, my friends and just about being where I’m at, but, um, but I think that’s kind of helped me develop a practice of just like self care, you know, you know, whether that’s

reading or making sure that I’m active and, um, you know, keeping my body moving and all that good stuff. I think, you know, what I definitely learned there is that you just, you need to ask for help, you know, and, and, um, in recruiting, you want to carry it all yourself. Um, and I’ve been in those, in those roles where, again, I was working on 40, 50 roles at a time when I first started.

Um, and so I was used to carrying it all on my back. And I think that just, that just opened my eyes to the, to the possibilities of like, you know, what, what, what comes when you actually, you know, say that you actually need help. Um, and you, you need some support. And so, yeah, it’s, it’s definitely built, you know, a high level of resilience, I think over the last few years.

Um, and just continually like, you know, developing myself and making sure that I’m ready for whatever changes come. Um, I will see, we’ll probably never see what we saw like 2020, 2021, hopefully ever again. Um, but that, that experience, you know, and Mark can relate. I think, you know, when at a time at Brody, right?

Like I think there was, um, there was a lot in that season that a lot of us learned about ourselves, but also how much we can handle. Um, and so we’re ready for whatever comes next. Yeah, a lot of people got burnt out. And I think just, you know, taking it back to control what you can control, you know, like you said, ask for help when you can, it’s going to be up and down, but yeah, that, that was the most wild time in recruiting I’ve seen in 15 years.

So Speaking of which, work from home, in the office. I know those are two trigger buttons, but I know in the real estate space, you know, there’s always an importance of being, I think, in the office for a lot of the employees. How, you know, was Newcastle’s approach to returning to the office and managing the cultural shifts, uh, that we’ve seen within, you know, the remote work during that, you know, weird 2020 and 2021 period of time?

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, our teams, most majority of the teams are frontline employees, right? So they were actually in the office during the majority of COVID. Uh, one period we had people remote, but because we’re in the properties and servicing the residents and taking care of the residents, it was, um, again, a wild ride for them on not just like dealing with day to day stuff, but dealing with COVID protocols and keeping people safe and secure and safe and healthy, you know, within the.

The residents when you have, um, you know, a 40, 40 floor multifamily property and everyone’s in the same elevator bank. So, um, you know, so a lot of our employees were still within the offices and, you know, it was just part of that was making sure that they felt protected and comfortable for, you know, as a team.

And, um, even though we were more on the skeleton crew and we shifted, uh, we adjusted shifts. So everyone didn’t, wasn’t there at the same time, just keeping Um, you know, again, engagement act active and happening, um, or corporate office. It was a little bit different. So we do have a corporate office at 1 50 that has more of the financial, like the financial roles, HR, um, asset management developments sitting there, um, and we continue to be flexible today.

You know, I think that’s, that’s a key. It’s like flexible while you’re still driving hype. Part of productivity with the teams. Um, we haven’t seen a dip with people’s work ethics. I think the biggest discussion we had was making sure that as we hired new people and people that were some people that were relatively new in their careers, making sure that they were still learning from the team that might not have been around them five days a week, uh, you know, eight hours a day because people were moving in and out of our, our offices or having the hybrid, the hybrid schedule.

So I think our teams did a really good job of making sure like You know, um, just virtual, you know, connectivity was there. Um, you know, still, you know, today we have teen days in our corporate office. So we do have two days where most of the business is there and we do a big job, big, big role of making sure that we’re, um, creating a little bit of space so we can, you know, gather and still have that like team crop team collaboration happening.

Uh, whether that’s lunches with like lunch and learns, or, you know, just, just something to keep people excited for coming into the office around that. But, um, you know, we have a big group of young families too happening right now. Um, so that plays a part into it whenever, you know, we’ve had a really big group of people having their first or second newborn, uh, in the family.

So, you know, I think the key with flexibility in the office is that as it makes sense while still keeping a little bit of that, like, um, baseline of like, we got to be in together and learn from each other, whether that’s physical or remote, it happens, and we’ve done a pretty good job of that, I believe.

Yeah, that’s, that’s great to hear that you guys have been able to figure it out because I know some organizations are still struggling to figure out what the balance is. Um, last question before we get into kind of our more fun segment, HRTA, you know, it continues just to be, as we’ve talked throughout this podcast, more intertwined with the business in most areas.

Organizations. I guess when you guys are meeting with your hiring managers, your business leaders, what are kind of some of the top initiatives that you’re hearing? What are people excited about for going into 2025? We’d love just to kind of hear what you’re thinking from an outlook for the, the next 12 months.

JC, do you want to kick it off? Yeah, I think, I mean, and this is maybe specific to the real estate world. I think everyone wants to know like what’s, what’s, where are we headed, you know, as a, as an industry. And I think people are really excited about, um, you know, maybe new developments, new transactions.

I don’t know, I don’t know that that’ll happen in 2025 and at the scale that we’ve seen before. Um, but I think that’s kind of the overall sentiment, even when I talk to candidates. Um, or just, you know, when I’m networking, um, people are just excited about like, okay, I have all these skills. I have these, this, all this experience, like I want to use it and I want to utilize it.

And so people are, I think are kind of excited and looking forward to the future. In the real estate world. Um, and, and I think internally too, I think people are, you know, they, they want to continue to grow. They want to, I think that’s going to be, you know, what’s going to be, what’s going to set your companies apart over the next few years is how are you, how are you developing your people?

Um, and, and what kind of investment are you putting in them so that they understand that this is a place where they can grow and develop their skills for the future. Um, And, uh, and yeah, like, you know, you’re going to see a lot of hoarding of talent, I think, which would be interesting, um, because, you know, think anytime there’s a economic uncertainty or, um, kind of uncertainty, uncertainty in culture, whatever the case is, um, I think strong leadership is always going to be necessary.

Um, so I think every hire going forward is going to matter, you know, even more than before. Um, so yeah, I think there’s a lot of excitement around, you know, real estate specifically. I’m sure you’re seeing that in other industries as well. But yeah, that’s kind of what I’m seeing so far. Yeah, I agree with that.

Yeah, I think the other thing, um, outside of just, um, like the career growth perspective, a lot of what I’m hearing both in my network and, and leaders and, and our business trying to get prepared is like our AI, right? So as, I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s, it feels like the early days of like www.com right? So we’re, going to be living there

uh, with AI. And I think, um, we’re, we’re kind of excited to see what technology brings, um, to the table and how HR integrates that. And I think for, for our business, JC, I think you would agree. It’s probably recruiting is the biggest, like ROI at it, like first out the gate from my perspective, you know, we’re, not a large company.

So I’ve seen what Microsoft does and it’s doing with their businesses with AI and, um, you know, just seeing how that technology dots into how we deal with their day to day and, and JC’s already been doing amazing stuff with it from a candidate perspective, um, to start out with, and, uh, it’s going to go fast, and I think it’ll be quite interesting to see how it, you know, becomes part of our, um, business as usual, and as well as protecting.

So, you know, cyber security is top of mind for us, making sure, you know, um, you know, as part of a pension, making sure we’re protecting our, our pension. Um, you know, making sure we have cyber security and all that things, all those dialed up in such a different way, because now AI is such a big piece of that, and it’s completely different on how we thought about it yesterday, and yeah, that’s going to be quite interesting, I think, as we go into the next.

Um, you know, year and a half and see how that moves around. Yeah, I agree. It’s like the past year, year and a half, everyone’s been talking about it. And the next year, year and a half, we’ll see more and more changes. So, um, well, we like to wrap our podcast with a little bit more of a fun, casual kind of section.

It’s our unfiltered random question segment where we just ask you a few more less formal questions. So the first one, um, is if you could have dinner with anyone in the world, you know, could be dead, alive, whoever. Who would it be, and why? Should we have dead or alive too? Yeah, I think they could have both.

I mean, alive is fine too, but like, One person? You can name a few if you’d like. Um, I’ll start out. So I will say Julius Caesar. Wow. Yeah, so I’m going dead. I love it. I’ve not heard anyone say that. Um, I was recently in Italy for the first time. I love it. Uh, about, I guess, nine months ago or so, like this past year.

And I was blown away by the Roman ruins. Like I just, I’d never, I was like, how did I miss this? Like, I didn’t realize it existed the way it exists. So if you ever walk through them and done a formal tour there, it is like, I was like, I was so blown away. And I think, you know, just, um. It’d be interesting to learn about, you know, how they lived, politics, the government, how businesses were created.

I mean, you can really see it and it’s, it’s, it was shocking to me. I just, I had no idea. And uh, or maybe I forgot from my like early like times and learning about the Roman empire back in, you know, grammar school or whatever it was, high school. Um, but, but I think that’d be interesting because I think when, when you You know, you learn history, you know, it’s part of like the future, right?

You know, you learn from the history and it shapes how you think about the future. And I think that’ll be quite interesting. So that’s mine. Crazy part of history. That’s for sure. Yeah. And I feel like at least in my schooling, I don’t remember learning the detail of it. Cause Mark same, I went to Rome, gosh, a year and a half ago.

And I just felt like, I was learning so much for the first time. So yeah, really mind blowing. I was like just shocked to walk through it. I was like, whoa. . Yeah. JC what about you? I don’t know how I follow that answer. ? Uh, no. There’s one, there’s one person that alive that I think about, his name is Ed Mylett, if you’re familiar.

He is. Okay. Actually one of the most, uh, motivational, I think he’s the number one motivational speaker right now in the world. Um, but I mean, he has got a amazing story, but also like, you know, he’s somebody that if you have dinner with him, you’re probably going to feel like you can conquer the world the next day.

Um, and so that’s, that’s definitely someone that, you know, I want to, I want that kind of, um, uh, I want that, you know, that type of conversation. Those are the types of conversation I always. I always, you know, kind of lean on, um, you know, I want to know what drives someone, what their vision is, all that good stuff.

So that’s, that would be a great conversation. I would probably run through a wall right afterwards. I probably need dinner with 📍 my wife so that she can bring me back down to earth the next day. But yeah, no, Ed Mylett. That’s a, that’s a, that’s a strong one, I think. Okay. Modern age, maybe Tony Robbins type.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, I think he’s probably going to surpass Tony Robbins. Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. Um, and then one more question. And we kind of touched on it earlier when you were talking about the burnout of recruiting, but just how do you both just like de stress from a hard, tough work week, work day, work year?

Um, what are your, your thoughts there? Um, I think something that I’ve been doing, and this is not necessarily like brand new, but I think, uh, my wife and I, we, we, we, we make sure we have date nights on the calendar. Like, and that’s a, that’s a date, that’s a date night where you just focus on each other.

There’s no, nothing about the kids, nothing about work, um, nothing about politics or anything in the world that’s happening. It’s just us. And I think we usually do that at the beginning of the week, um, to kind of set the week up for, for us in a nice way. Um, and we also have family night. So I think just scheduling the things that are really important to you and, and make them non negotiable, like, you know, putting them on the calendar and making sure you’re, you know, you’ve got the alerts and you’re getting really excited about them and planning around them.

Um, and even if it’s just like a date night at home, like just having, you know, lunch with your, your, your spouse, or if you have a friend that you want to, you know, hang out with on a weekly basis, like just put it on the calendar. I think that’s going to be the most important thing to kind of keep you sane.

Um, and, and I think my hot tip is like doing it at the beginning of the week so that the rest of the week feels a little bit lighter. I like that. Um, I would say a little to JC’s side is, um, I was in a, yeah, I was in a funk of like working out and just like a physical like exertion. So, um, I had a Peloton from, you know, COVID days that I never used and finally got into a, my brother in law, my sister in law and I are on a text chain.

So we motivate each other. Um, so we do three workouts a week and we all, we’re all, we live in different states and we’re the in laws. So it kind of like brings us together a little bit more and it’s been fun to like push each other. So it’s helped me get back on the bike and just, um, you know, just old fashioned, sweat it out a little bit.

And, uh, yeah. Just mentally feels great afterwards. So, uh, so, uh, um, so I’ve been doing that for the past, like, like year, actually, exercise, executive weeks, exercise works wonders, you know, it definitely can easily get relieved stress from, uh, and give you more energy in the long run. Yeah, I have to get off the bike and I have my brain is clear and I have all these other thoughts that like, I’m like, I have a problem.

I’m gonna get on the bike and I’ll like figure it out afterwards. And I usually do. So I think, yeah, it’s an accountability piece. I think having the text with the others, even if they’re not in the same city as you just knowing, like, they’re doing this, I can do this. It kind of creates some friendly competition.

Yeah, so it’s been fun. So Appreciate it guys. That’s all the time we have for today. Um, thanks for tuning in to this week’s episode. Um, today, we’ve had Mark and JC from Newcastle Investors as our guests. Um, we discussed their career building from the ground up, uh, rebranding and what’s to come in 2025 and much more.

We’ll be back again next month with a new special guest. A quick reminder of how to support the Beyond the Offer podcast. You can find all our content on Hirewell’s social media platform, which you can find through Hirewell.com. Take care everyone and thanks for tuning in. Thanks Mark and JC. Thanks guys.

Thanks so much.